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this program is brought to you by the

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genesis communications network a world

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leader in talk radio since 1998. visit

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[Music]

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hey

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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here's gene steinberg

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so with gene and chris we're back on the

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power cast and

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in a few moments we'll be joined by

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three guests for

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a women

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in ufology round table

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focusing of course on contributions of

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women why more women

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aren't

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involved in the field least publicly i

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mean when you look at the listings of

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guests

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for the ufo conventions you know we can

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be like the academy awards last year

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white and male

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so we'll see what happens there by the

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way before we even

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get into that and this is going to be

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really a fascinating episode i wanted to

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mention the appearance last week of jim

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mars

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and the response we had from listeners

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to it now i guess if you're wondering

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why he was pushing this old book from l

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ron hubbard battlefield earth it's

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because the pr people from the publisher

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sent jim to us so you know they gave a

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little announcement no big deal unless

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you know you don't like the book or

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you realize it's a publisher connected

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with scientology and you don't like that

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but we never talked about that what i

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think upset a few people like half the

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messages in response to the mars

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appearance were not so much about his

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conspiracy theories it was about his

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political beliefs

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which was what we kind of shut him down

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after about two minutes chris well i

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don't even think we went long enough for

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us to really determine much of anything

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as soon as i felt it going in a

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direction that

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might be

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i don't know make some of our our

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listeners squirm i did i did kind of

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shut it down um i i felt there was way

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too much

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material that we could talk about from

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his work we didn't even scratch the

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surface really we spent way too much

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time on kennedy as far as i'm concerned

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some of his books were quite influential

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uh i think in in

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people's

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minds in terms of of the field actually

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having writers who um

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slumming i guess would be the word but

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jim mars is one of the more talented

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researchers and writers uh who have

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stooped down uh to the to the great

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unwashed masses and and graced us with

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his his presence uh in terms of his

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writing skill and his his abilities i i

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really uh i look up to the man i've read

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many of his books in a number of genres

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all conspiracy obviously uh that's kind

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of where he he hangs his hat you know i

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really feel that uh we need more

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writers like jim mars like the quality

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of a writing of a whitley streeter there

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just aren't aren't enough one of the

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reasons why i think the mainstream

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doesn't take it seriously is because the

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quality of writing is really not not

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where it needs to be unfortunately we're

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going into an age of uh you know of

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sound bites of sound bites so

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writing quality what's writing quality

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for instance in rock and roll i've been

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a big fan of rock and roll uh

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criticism uh rock critics uh all the way

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back into the 60s when i was a kid and

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of course you know my

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many times i profess my admiration for

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writers such as hunter thompson you know

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in some of the offshoots the second

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generation of beat writers we need more

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people that are irreverent that are

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willing to uh turn a phrase and and and

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coin terms and and that sort of thing

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it's it's too boring it's too staid it's

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too you know predictable you know this

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old paradigm uh in terms of writing

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styles just not going to

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inspire any of the kids in this day and

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age again i i really

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admire jim for for slumming uh with some

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of us and i aspire to uh to a level of

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writing that's a little bit more uh

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cutting edge a little bit more edgy and

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and i think uh jim

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if he brought that kind of edginess to

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his actual writing style i think

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he'd be even better

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but you just can't knock the guy for for

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trying and

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anybody that thinks that there was a

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problem with the episode because he was

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he was pumping

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battlefield earth which i i felt was

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kind of weird i tried to point out to

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him it was probably it's on many

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people's uh critics uh worst movie of

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all time list he said well yeah but the

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audiobook is really good and it's like

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i'm not going to listen to 40 hours of

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battlefield earth stuff i mean people

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just don't do that anymore unless

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they're

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in serious need of a life gene

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you know the thing here

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is that

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we shouldn't judge

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the validity

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of his arguments because he has one

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political viewpoint or another and and

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based on what he said there and based on

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a private email i had with him

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afterwards yes he

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obviously is very conservative in his

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political views it doesn't matter that's

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not

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what's going to make the solution to the

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kennedy assassination any different or

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911 or ufos or

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disclosure any

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thing that you can attach something

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conspiratorial to

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it doesn't matter what his political

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beliefs are

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he starred in life as a working

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journalist and worked in that business

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for a long time

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if we look at what he says and the facts

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and forget whether a guy is liberal or

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conservative i think

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that's the point we should look at that

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i mean i have the same viewpoint when

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people get a little upset because

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someone in show business

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is conservative john voigt's

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conservative

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and

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who cares there are people who are

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citizens of the united states they have

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a right they're entertainers if they're

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entertainers

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some slack

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right i mean

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we should worry about the fact that

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their films are whether they're good or

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bad that's what we worry about we're not

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paying to hear their politics if they

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want to express it they have the right

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like any other citizen

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but when it comes to

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what they do for a living

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they entertain us who cares

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what their politics are why should we

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worry about it don't watch ray donovan

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on tv

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because john voigt's a conservative what

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about the others who are not

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we can't have that kind of thing i think

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people just entitled to believe what

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they believe i mean if we focus on

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our subjects which is ufos and

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everything and

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bigfoot

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and all these subjects

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it doesn't matter what the politics are

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unless it impacts it you know like

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government secrecy or something

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well well

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you know again i i think

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this is a good you know kind of a

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lead-in to today's show uh i remember

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talking with erica uh luke's uh uh

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several months ago about

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problems that she has had in the field

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of

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uh taken uh seriously number two not uh

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tokenized and made uh

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into some sort of object

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by people uh you know in in private uh

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people in the field um i i find that

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horrific

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um and and the very idea that um

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women

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can make

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highly effective and and in some cases

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way more effective investigators out in

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the field than men

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uh for the rank and foul the mainstream

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of the good old boys in ufology i mean

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that's blasphemy um however i i think

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today's segment is going to show how

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the culture is changing and um and i i

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really feel that there

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we need to use all the tools in our

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tool kits as investigators and we need

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to maximize our potential and that means

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i think assigning

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responsibilities

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more so to women especially in areas

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where women just seem to have a

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i think do a better job in many ways

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than than men can do and i've seen it

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firsthand i've worked with men

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men in the field and i've worked with

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women in the field and

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i can say almost you know

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almost every instance with one or two

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exceptions the women have come through

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um actually being more effective being

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more

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uh i think

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putting putting experiences and putting

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witnesses i think at ease quick uh

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in a in a quicker manner and also um i

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think in a more effective manner that

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elicits uh opening up and and details

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coming out of experiences that that

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maybe a man couldn't get and of course

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this is all subjective uh

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in terms of my my own opinion but i

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think today we're going to really um

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you know i have no one's ever done this

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before gene this is the first time we've

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had a round table of women discussing

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women's role in paranormal research and

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the problems and the the pratt falls and

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uh and some of the things we need to

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really discuss and and

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look at i think in depth and and this is

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uh

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i think this is hopefully going to be a

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clarion call for everybody else to uh

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you know start to adjust their thinking

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when it comes to gender specific uh

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investigators and um and well

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let's bring it on here let me play my my

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working with rhinos video which um i've

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played a number of times on the show i

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don't have time now over time

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can we do it at the beginning of the

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next one with gene and chris you're in

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we also have swag you know we have all

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these exclusive power cast things that

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you can buy we've got like i guess 60 or

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so different items and entails t-shirts

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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

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jackets and stuff like that for men and

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women we have a power cast aluminum

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store dot the powercast.com

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store.thepowercast.com what makes

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special is that the items are the best

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quality or great t-shirts fabrics and

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359
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360
00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:19,279
send it to news at theparecast.com

361
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:22,560
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362
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and don't forget to visit our famous

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[Music]

365
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:46,000
there we go i don't know what to say

366
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:48,959
it's baby rhinos uh that are hungry uh

367
00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:51,360
they need milk and they need it fast

368
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:52,399
okay

369
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:55,199
announce our guests for us chris

370
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:58,240
well i mentioned erica luke's former uh

371
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,440
state director of mufon and a um

372
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,680
just i think a really

373
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:04,880
fun

374
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:07,279
inspiring woman for others looking to

375
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:09,680
get into the field both male and female

376
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:11,040
very serious

377
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,079
attitude has all the skills

378
00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:16,720
needed to uh be a a good investigator

379
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:19,040
like she is and she's run into problems

380
00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:22,160
um over the years during her

381
00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:23,600
emerging career

382
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:25,040
if you want to call it that of an

383
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:28,079
investigator of course kathleen martin

384
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:29,680
is the niece of betty hill one of the

385
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:31,040
first

386
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:32,639
female figures really in the history of

387
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:34,560
ufology when you think about it going

388
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:37,040
all the way back to 62 and the the hill

389
00:15:41,750 --> 00:15:39,279
abduction in new hampshire kathleen's a

390
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:41,760
niece she's been in the field for at

391
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:44,079
least a decade if not longer she's

392
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:45,600
written a number of books she's in

393
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:48,720
charge of mufon's uh induction research

394
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:51,120
and then we have chase uh klutzy who uh

395
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:53,920
i met a number of years ago in in

396
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,399
minneapolis at a conference i was very

397
00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:58,720
struck by her uh dedication her

398
00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:00,800
seriousness about getting to the bottom

399
00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:02,639
of of these mysteries

400
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:05,120
she's also become a radio personality as

401
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:08,480
has erica with their own shows uh

402
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:11,120
chase is involved in uh very heavily

403
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,040
with mufon she's one of the chief uh i

404
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:14,880
think she's in charge of investigations

405
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:16,880
or one of the ones in charge

406
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:18,880
we'll have to get a little uh clarity on

407
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:19,839
that

408
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:25,040
are are real good examples to bring to a

409
00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:27,199
round table to discuss

410
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:29,519
issues surrounding uh women's role in

411
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:31,440
ufology problems that we've had up to

412
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:34,000
this point possible ways to work around

413
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:35,519
that how

414
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:38,880
women and men can be best utilized in

415
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:41,839
investigations and in research

416
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:44,480
i think kathleen has done a marvelous

417
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:45,360
job

418
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,040
working with abductees she's definitely

419
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:51,680
the go-to person i think in my mind uh

420
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:52,959
for anyone

421
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:53,839
who's

422
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:55,120
wants to

423
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,959
explore experiences that they've had

424
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,639
that they really

425
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:01,040
need to get a handle on i've recommended

426
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:03,120
a number of people to her

427
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:04,559
in fact recently

428
00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:07,439
so i i think um chase uh erica or

429
00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:08,799
kathleen

430
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:10,400
are three women that can really help us

431
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:12,880
out a lot in in really gauging

432
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:15,199
you know the next phase of ufology and

433
00:17:21,189 --> 00:17:18,720
how how we can best marshal our assets

434
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:21,199
and really maximize our potential

435
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:23,600
it can't be gender specific it can't be

436
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:25,839
the good old boys network anymore things

437
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:27,120
have got to change

438
00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:29,440
you know erica since you kind of got

439
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,360
started on this first of all i want to

440
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:33,520
thank you and chris for having this

441
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:35,600
round table i think this is important

442
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:37,520
especially as we try to encourage a

443
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:39,679
younger generation to become active in

444
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:40,960
this field

445
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:44,240
and i know that there are some very

446
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:46,080
serious issues that do need to be

447
00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:49,039
addressed with women in this field and

448
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:50,720
kathleen probably knows better than

449
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:52,400
anyone about the

450
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,559
the hardships that women have faced over

451
00:17:59,430 --> 00:17:56,640
the decades and i believe that she will

452
00:18:01,510 --> 00:17:59,440
have some good input for all of us to

453
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:01,520
engage younger generations specifically

454
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:03,280
women

455
00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:04,799
kathleen

456
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:06,160
yes

457
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:07,280
there you are

458
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:09,120
good to see you again i think i saw you

459
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:11,039
like what was it a week or so ago with

460
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:12,640
the international ufo conference you

461
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:15,840
were sitting next to stanton friedman

462
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:20,000
yes and i saw you walk by briefly

463
00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:22,080
it was a brief trip because i was dead

464
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:23,120
tired

465
00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:26,080
yes so i just kind of waved my way

466
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:26,799
now

467
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:28,480
you were mentioning to me there was a

468
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:30,080
site that you saw

469
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:32,240
was it a wikipedia site

470
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:34,640
that listed the contribution

471
00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:38,480
of women in ufology over the years

472
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,000
and of course one of the people

473
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:42,240
prominently mentioned is the woman who

474
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:43,039
was

475
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:44,640
one of the directors

476
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:46,640
of the

477
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:48,640
aerial phenomena research organization

478
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:51,360
afro carl lorenzen

479
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:53,840
yes now before we get started about

480
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:55,520
coral lorenz and i have a story about

481
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,679
her that isn't very pleasant

482
00:19:01,510 --> 00:19:00,240
uh-oh we're going to be fair okay

483
00:19:03,990 --> 00:19:01,520
now

484
00:19:06,150 --> 00:19:04,000
i was really young young whippersnapper

485
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:06,160
and i put out a rather nice looking ufo

486
00:19:10,549 --> 00:19:08,480
magazine i thought called ufo reporter

487
00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:10,559
which is not an exclusive name with us

488
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:11,600
but

489
00:19:15,669 --> 00:19:13,840
it has been used a couple of times and

490
00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:15,679
we ran a story

491
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:18,320
about the soccaro new mexico case and

492
00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:21,120
what we did is we summarized

493
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:24,160
the lorenzen's report in fate magazine

494
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:26,400
but of course being that it was fair use

495
00:19:30,150 --> 00:19:28,720
we didn't quote much we

496
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:30,160
paraphrased it you know normal

497
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:32,320
journalistic i hope

498
00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:33,360
coverage

499
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:36,640
she took umbrage on it feeling that we

500
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:39,280
published too much

501
00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:41,280
of that material

502
00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:42,720
and therefore asked me to give her a

503
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:45,280
hundred dollars

504
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:51,669
and we had an exchange of

505
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:53,919
letters snail mail this is of course the

506
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:56,559
1960s back and forth i kind of said are

507
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:57,840
you serious

508
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:00,960
never heard from her again okay

509
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:03,200
ten years later i don't know to the day

510
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:04,720
or not

511
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:06,640
ten years later i meet her at a ufo

512
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:08,640
convention

513
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:09,600
in

514
00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:12,080
arkansas i believe

515
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,320
and she still remembered and she still

516
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:16,799
held a grudge against me oh you're that

517
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:19,440
guy who ran that story

518
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:22,400
about sicarro

519
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:25,280
she wouldn't give it a rest

520
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:27,120
so she may have done some pretty great

521
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:29,600
things in ufology but she could be a

522
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:31,120
little crusty

523
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:32,880
just saying

524
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:35,360
yes and i know that she uh

525
00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:38,720
would be terribly upset when people

526
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:41,440
ran stories that were not entirely

527
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:43,360
accurate and i'm not talking about yours

528
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:45,679
i haven't seen yours

529
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,000
but i did read

530
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:50,400
a little bit about

531
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:52,799
the soccoro investigation that she was

532
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:55,200
very heavily involved in

533
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:56,080
and

534
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:58,640
she did make the comment that somebody

535
00:21:02,950 --> 00:20:59,840
had written

536
00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:02,960
an article and had made i believe it was

537
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:04,720
six mistakes

538
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:07,039
in whatever it was it might have been

539
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:09,520
somebody else in the field and not you

540
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:15,909
was a person who was a stickler for

541
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:17,440
accuracy

542
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:19,760
and and that's a good thing

543
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:23,520
to be she was a highly intelligent woman

544
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:26,400
she was the author of several books on

545
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:27,760
ufos

546
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:30,080
the the person who started the aerial

547
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:33,440
phenomena research organization

548
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:36,880
uh she started out in wisconsin

549
00:21:41,470 --> 00:21:40,240
and then she and her husband who was

550
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:41,480
also the

551
00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:43,039
co-director

552
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:45,280
of apro

553
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:49,440
had a job in arizona and so they

554
00:21:55,909 --> 00:21:52,159
they ended up settling in tucson arizona

555
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:55,919
and this is how she came to know dr

556
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:58,799
james mcdonald the late great dr james

557
00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:01,120
mcdonald who was a physicist

558
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,480
and probably

559
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:04,480
the finest

560
00:22:12,630 --> 00:22:08,559
professional who ever lived with regard

561
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:12,640
to the investigation of ufos

562
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:15,840
from a scientific standpoint i have a

563
00:22:23,110 --> 00:22:19,200
great deal of of respect for him

564
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:23,120
and for coral lorenzen as well because

565
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:25,679
she was a strong woman

566
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:27,039
early

567
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:30,240
in our time in our ufo

568
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:31,679
times when

569
00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:34,400
women were often at home

570
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:35,919
and

571
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:38,080
took a secondary role

572
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:41,360
and even intelligent women highly

573
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:43,600
intelligent and educated women were

574
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:45,200
housewives

575
00:22:54,790 --> 00:22:47,919
chase kletzke erica lukes kathleen

576
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,950
[Music]

577
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:00,070
[Applause]

578
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682
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683
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684
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hey this is marie d jones the author of

685
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:19,679
this book is from the future

686
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:22,320
and you are listening to the paracast

687
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,269
our women's roundtable episode of the

688
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:37,600
power cast with chase and erica and

689
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:39,840
kathleen just to point out here as i

690
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:40,640
said

691
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,200
carl lorenzon's objection was not about

692
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:45,360
the factual content she never corrected

693
00:27:48,390 --> 00:27:46,240
anything

694
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:48,400
i think she felt maybe we

695
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,000
used too many

696
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:52,000
quotes or too much of her material i

697
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:53,440
don't know it just seemed to be kind of

698
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:54,799
ridiculous

699
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:56,960
because we're in a situation here where

700
00:28:02,710 --> 00:27:59,760
we hope that the information is shared

701
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:02,720
among the ufo community and the work

702
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:03,760
they did

703
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:05,360
i always had a close relationship with

704
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,520
the people from fate magazine

705
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:09,760
the fullers so i don't know what really

706
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:11,760
got her upset there but it wasn't about

707
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:13,840
the factual accuracy if she pointed out

708
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:15,039
something that was wrong i would have

709
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:17,520
been happy to correct it let me make one

710
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:20,720
more statement and that is that as long

711
00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:23,679
as you keep the use of someone else's

712
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:27,039
material within copyright law and there

713
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:29,039
are specific copyright laws on the

714
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:31,520
amount of information you can use

715
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,000
and you footnote it and you give

716
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:35,919
references then there should not be a

717
00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:38,240
problem well i think we followed fair

718
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:40,720
use i was studying journalism in school

719
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:43,679
and i think we copied fair use it was

720
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:45,440
a short piece

721
00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:48,000
most of it was my words

722
00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:49,919
and i think we may have carried a few

723
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:52,399
quotes unfortunately as some people know

724
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:53,760
fair use

725
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:55,279
is a gray area

726
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:57,840
but fair use could mean a sentence here

727
00:29:01,750 --> 00:28:59,440
a paragraph there it doesn't mean

728
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:01,760
copying extensive portions like a

729
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:03,600
certain book in the political realm

730
00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:05,200
where somebody wrote a best-selling book

731
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:07,520
or something and they found out that

732
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:09,520
they had plagiarized a large portion of

733
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:11,520
it that book was withdrawn you know i

734
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:13,600
understand that but no i see your point

735
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:14,480
there

736
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:17,039
chase welcome back to the power cast

737
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:19,279
it's so great to be with you guys hi

738
00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:20,159
chris

739
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,000
hi chase welcome back

740
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:24,720
happy spring i'm sitting here basking in

741
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:27,120
a beautiful spring day here in arizona

742
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:30,240
we're up in the low 70s it's glo global

743
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:31,919
warming at its finest

744
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:35,440
absolutely we've had 70s 80s

745
00:29:41,110 --> 00:29:38,240
the entire winter i i should complain

746
00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:41,120
but i'm not going to wow oh that's

747
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:43,120
fabulous what part of the country is

748
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:44,000
that

749
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:46,000
south georgia but you're right near

750
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:49,120
florida right i am on the east coast so

751
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,000
it's a weather pattern that comes you

752
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:54,480
know straight up the atlantic ocean

753
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:57,520
so we mirror what orlando's getting not

754
00:30:01,269 --> 00:29:59,360
necessarily atlanta which is you know

755
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:01,279
six and a half hours away they can be

756
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:04,320
having snow we're still basking in 75.

757
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:06,240
well that's nice at least

758
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:08,720
now in your experience working with

759
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:10,320
mufon

760
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:11,760
getting on with

761
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:14,480
a pretty high position did you find it

762
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:16,559
more difficult as a woman

763
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:18,960
to gain acceptance as a skilled

764
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:21,279
experienced ufo investigator

765
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:23,279
well i've been with buffon for quite

766
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:25,679
some time and i think most people forget

767
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:28,320
that i did take a little break i was

768
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:30,960
with them for 18 years and i was a field

769
00:30:35,830 --> 00:30:32,960
investigator so

770
00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:35,840
it wasn't until

771
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,559
where i was given a shot for any kind of

772
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:40,480
position other than that

773
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:42,640
and it was awesome because mufon had

774
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:44,080
just put out an announcement that they

775
00:30:49,510 --> 00:30:46,880
were looking to revise the star team

776
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:49,520
program after bigelow had left you know

777
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:52,320
anybody you know a one-page summary of

778
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:54,080
what your skills are and what you would

779
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:56,559
bring to the position not thinking i had

780
00:31:02,230 --> 00:30:59,760
a chance in hades i filled that out and

781
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,240
submitted it a couple months later it

782
00:31:06,310 --> 00:31:04,320
was chuck reaver who was director of

783
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,320
investigations at the time

784
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:08,640
called me on a sunday morning and asked

785
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:11,279
me if i would accept that position i

786
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:13,440
almost forgot i filled it out i mean i

787
00:31:16,870 --> 00:31:15,200
honestly had

788
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:16,880
no confidence whatsoever i was going to

789
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:19,120
get this position but it was a way to

790
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:21,760
put my name in the arena and and start

791
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,840
breaking out of just you know the fi

792
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:25,440
local status

793
00:31:29,510 --> 00:31:27,600
i picked up the phone he was surprised

794
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:29,520
and he said you know excuse me for a

795
00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:31,760
moment chase because i guess the one

796
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:34,559
thing we didn't realize from your uh

797
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:37,440
resume was that you were a woman and i'm

798
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:43,350
and i have to be honest

799
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:44,159
right

800
00:31:55,669 --> 00:31:53,269
let me tell you what he said he said

801
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:55,679
even better i was very proud of that

802
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:58,480
because i got that position fair and

803
00:32:01,990 --> 00:31:59,760
square

804
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:02,000
it wasn't that they needed a woman to

805
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:04,559
fill a leadership position it was based

806
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:07,600
solely on my skill set very very proud

807
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:09,600
of that actually maybe there's hope for

808
00:32:13,509 --> 00:32:10,799
mufon

809
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:13,519
right since i've been back after a

810
00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:14,640
little break

811
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:17,279
you know i've experienced honestly and

812
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:18,720
sincerely

813
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:22,720
nothing but respect and favor truthfully

814
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:25,360
i'm very happy to be back wow that's

815
00:32:29,669 --> 00:32:26,640
great to hear

816
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:29,679
because your experience uh has not been

817
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:32,000
shared with with everybody uh

818
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:33,039
including

819
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,559
um

820
00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:36,240
some individuals that have contacted me

821
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:39,200
over the years that uh i felt that

822
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:41,600
women weren't taken as seriously within

823
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:44,559
the organization as they should be and

824
00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:46,320
it's it's really gratifying to hear that

825
00:32:49,350 --> 00:32:47,279
uh that

826
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:49,360
at least since on some level in in your

827
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:51,039
case that wasn't the case that's

828
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:52,880
actually a good thing yeah it really

829
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:55,360
wasn't the case and you know like i said

830
00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:58,399
most of my experience was at fi level so

831
00:33:00,470 --> 00:32:59,440
i had

832
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:00,480
zero

833
00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:02,720
accessibility i i don't think i ever

834
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:04,880
once called headquarters never it was

835
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:07,600
really when i became star team manager

836
00:33:13,909 --> 00:33:10,559
you know that i got thrusted into a

837
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:13,919
headquarters or a leadership position

838
00:33:17,350 --> 00:33:15,840
truthfully i loved my job i thought it

839
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:17,360
was the greatest job

840
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:19,679
the only problems i had to move on were

841
00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:22,399
with women and that was at the time the

842
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,240
director of investigation was marie

843
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:26,480
malzahn if you guys remember there was a

844
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:30,000
small period of time about 45 days that

845
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:32,640
nine women in leadership positions were

846
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:35,039
fired from mufon then of course i left

847
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:37,360
shortly after that and it was it all

848
00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:38,720
surrounded

849
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:40,720
the director of investigations at that

850
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:42,799
time well you bring up a very

851
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:45,440
interesting episode that um i never

852
00:33:48,870 --> 00:33:47,600
really did fully get to the kind of the

853
00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:48,880
foundational

854
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:51,840
core of this this whole controversy but

855
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:53,919
why don't you give us a just a quick

856
00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:56,159
thumbnail sketch uh and then we'll get

857
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:59,039
uh kathleen and erica's take on this

858
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:01,120
particular episode but how would i

859
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:04,159
encapsulate this almost a uh a breakaway

860
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:05,679
movement within

861
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,440
mufon um

862
00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:09,359
there were a lot of ladies involved in

863
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:11,040
this if i remember correctly elaine

864
00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:14,159
douglas of course uh was one of the the

865
00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:16,639
lead people in simpson uh there were a

866
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:18,879
number but why don't you give us a sense

867
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:22,320
of what the incident was about and what

868
00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:23,839
this movement was about and how it

869
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:25,359
started

870
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:27,440
uh basically you know as star team

871
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:30,000
manager uh we would get these alerts

872
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:32,480
when we get category three or you know

873
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:34,560
cases that we should deploy

874
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:36,800
and a really great case had come into

875
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:38,639
the state of washington

876
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:41,359
and i was alert alerted right away

877
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:42,079
well

878
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:45,359
there was a suspicion that some of the

879
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:48,399
star team cases were being you know they

880
00:34:51,030 --> 00:34:49,200
were

881
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:51,040
sabotaged almost because other

882
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:52,639
investigators from other groups were

883
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:54,639
getting there beforehand and we didn't

884
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:56,720
understand

885
00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:58,880
and um

886
00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:00,880
you know but anyway

887
00:35:04,950 --> 00:35:02,960
so we get this case and out of the blue

888
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:04,960
i get a call from

889
00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:08,240
one of the men in buffon who is very

890
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:10,800
upset because the gps coordinates are

891
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:12,720
off the case

892
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:14,320
and i explained to him that yes that

893
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:15,599
this is something we're going to be

894
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:17,680
doing until the star team investigators

895
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:19,760
can be on scene

896
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:22,480
um secure you know evidence and the

897
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,240
witness and then all that information

898
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:26,240
goes right back in

899
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:27,680
in fact i'm not even the one that

900
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:31,040
personally removes it and

901
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,440
you know he just started screaming at me

902
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:35,760
screaming are you give me those gps

903
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:37,440
coordinates

904
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,920
well you know it was a brutal phone call

905
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:41,280
very bully

906
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:43,200
and um of course i reported it

907
00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:45,359
immediately to the doi

908
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:48,800
and it was really the lack of inaction

909
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:52,240
and you know betrayal basically of mufon

910
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:53,359
policy

911
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:56,480
uh the betrayal of rules and regulations

912
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:58,880
and a program that had been approved by

913
00:36:02,470 --> 00:36:00,480
the board of directors

914
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:02,480
by this woman you know in this

915
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:05,200
leadership position which is why i left

916
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:07,520
i didn't leave because you know some

917
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:08,960
you know old guy yelled at me on the

918
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:12,640
phone it was the way the process

919
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:15,599
of this situation was handled

920
00:36:20,630 --> 00:36:17,599
and it couldn't have been

921
00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:20,640
um more in my face and this was at the

922
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:22,800
same time that you know a lot of these

923
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:24,880
women were being fired

924
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:26,720
and i am talking about elaine douglas

925
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:28,720
and marilyn carlson and you know

926
00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:31,280
christine dickey and um

927
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:33,040
leslie barnickle there's a whole bunch

928
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:34,800
of them but there were like nine well

929
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:36,079
yeah we're getting ahead of ourselves

930
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:38,720
though chase we need to talk about why

931
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:40,800
they even kind of went to the mat to

932
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:44,000
begin with we have erica chase

933
00:36:51,230 --> 00:36:45,839
and kathleen with gene and chris you're

934
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1030
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front of a large truck for any reason

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[Music]

1040
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:17,829
hi this is bryce abel i'm the producer

1041
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:19,920
of dark skies the co-author of ad after

1042
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1043
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radio

1045
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[Music]

1046
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:35,200
we're doing the women's roundtable on

1047
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:37,520
the power cast with erica chase and

1048
00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:38,480
chris

1049
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:40,800
and jean and kathleen

1050
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:43,040
we got five people here

1051
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:45,920
vying for attention no that's just me

1052
00:41:51,109 --> 00:41:49,040
because i feel ignored i'm kidding chris

1053
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:51,119
we're talking about accountability

1054
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:54,000
issues uh in terms of mufon uh the

1055
00:41:58,950 --> 00:41:56,000
relationship with bigelow and bigelow

1056
00:42:02,150 --> 00:41:58,960
aerospace uh the actual

1057
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:02,160
flow of of cases where they went who got

1058
00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:03,200
them

1059
00:42:07,990 --> 00:42:06,480
what decision-making process uh ensued

1060
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:08,000
whether some cases were actually

1061
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:10,240
squirreled away by bigelow

1062
00:42:14,710 --> 00:42:12,640
um and and and mufon was totally taken

1063
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:14,720
out of the equation because of bigelow's

1064
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:16,400
financial relationship with mufon you're

1065
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:18,640
skipping over a lot of stuff chase well

1066
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:21,040
it's because it's a time frame and i

1067
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:22,880
thought you wanted to you know hear

1068
00:42:28,150 --> 00:42:25,920
about why i left and as far as most of

1069
00:42:30,309 --> 00:42:28,160
that goes that was things that we were

1070
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:30,319
looking into at the time and state

1071
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:32,240
directors were calling us inquiring

1072
00:42:37,349 --> 00:42:34,160
about some of this information

1073
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:37,359
but i had left i quit so i wasn't part

1074
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:40,000
of the solution that of course ensued

1075
00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:40,880
after

1076
00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:43,040
and part of that was you know marie

1077
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:45,200
being dismissed as well so

1078
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:47,119
a lot of those answers i don't have for

1079
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:50,079
you chris what i can't tell you is um

1080
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:51,839
completely ignored

1081
00:42:56,790 --> 00:42:53,599
you know anything i had to say i was

1082
00:42:58,470 --> 00:42:56,800
completely betrayed by

1083
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:58,480
this woman turning around and giving

1084
00:43:03,510 --> 00:43:01,440
this guy a gps coordinate who wasn't

1085
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,520
even close to the state he wasn't going

1086
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:05,040
to help with the case he never said hey

1087
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:06,880
is there something i can do

1088
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:09,040
you know why did he need that gps

1089
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:10,880
coordinate and it was marie malzahn that

1090
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:12,400
said because bigelow can move his

1091
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:15,440
satellites and i was horrified by that

1092
00:43:20,470 --> 00:43:18,480
comment because as somebody

1093
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:20,480
but as somebody that had been a mufon

1094
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:24,640
for 18 years i knew this was a rogue

1095
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:27,760
a rogue betrayal this was not how mufan

1096
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:30,240
operated you know i had been in for 18

1097
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,440
years you know

1098
00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:33,359
i've never seen anything like it

1099
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:36,240
so i to this day maintain

1100
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:37,920
that you know there was just a couple of

1101
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:39,599
people that had different agendas in

1102
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:41,440
buffon at the time

1103
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:44,160
but mufon is still a very credible

1104
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:45,599
respectable

1105
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:47,839
entity out there that's

1106
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:50,240
still one of the few groups still you

1107
00:43:54,309 --> 00:43:52,400
know thriving

1108
00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:54,319
since 1969.

1109
00:43:57,829 --> 00:43:55,839
and first of all just to clarify you're

1110
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:57,839
still with mufon now

1111
00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:00,400
i left for four years and it was

1112
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:02,640
actually uh at a conference in laughlin

1113
00:44:07,829 --> 00:44:05,040
that jan harzan approached me

1114
00:44:09,990 --> 00:44:07,839
and asked if we could go to lunch and i

1115
00:44:11,589 --> 00:44:10,000
had absolutely no intentions of ever

1116
00:44:13,589 --> 00:44:11,599
going back to mufon

1117
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:13,599
and to be quite honest with you i was

1118
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:15,599
not going to like jan harzan and i

1119
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:17,119
certainly wasn't going to respect him

1120
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:18,880
let alone trust him

1121
00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:21,599
and i went to lunch and i'm a tough old

1122
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:22,400
cookie

1123
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:24,240
by the end of this i was considering

1124
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:27,119
taking a position that he had offered

1125
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:29,520
with a special assignment team

1126
00:44:33,910 --> 00:44:31,839
that we only report to

1127
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:33,920
him the doi

1128
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:35,760
now which is steve hudgins and the board

1129
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:37,920
of directors so i did finally go back

1130
00:44:41,589 --> 00:44:39,760
but this was months and months guys this

1131
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:41,599
is like four months later i finally said

1132
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:43,440
okay i'll come back

1133
00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:45,359
it was a lot of um

1134
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:47,920
working out some issues and things um

1135
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:49,200
that really

1136
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:52,319
come it came down to for me personally

1137
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:54,800
marie malzahn now i i want to be very

1138
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:57,440
clear about one thing in those 18 years

1139
00:45:01,750 --> 00:45:00,240
i never had a single problem in buffon

1140
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:01,760
and i haven't since

1141
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:04,560
it was at one huge time

1142
00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:07,760
that everything just just came at me at

1143
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:11,520
one it just all culminated in one place

1144
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:14,319
and it was very clear that this woman in

1145
00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:16,079
this leadership position

1146
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:18,560
for some reason was getting rid of women

1147
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:22,000
who were strong and strong-minded and

1148
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:23,839
experienced

1149
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:26,720
and we were crumbling one after another

1150
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:29,920
that sounds wacky erica your experience

1151
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:33,119
at mufon wasn't super pleasant what do

1152
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:34,640
you have to say

1153
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:38,079
it wasn't and i think that i i've met a

1154
00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:39,680
lot of wonderful people who i will

1155
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,200
always be friends with and always

1156
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:43,200
support and there are a lot of

1157
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:45,119
good people that are state directors and

1158
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:48,319
field investigators involved with mufon

1159
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:51,200
do i think that mufon needs to seriously

1160
00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:53,359
look at their professional standards and

1161
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:55,040
ethics and the way they enforce them i

1162
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:55,839
do

1163
00:46:02,069 --> 00:46:00,000
look at people who are representing

1164
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:02,079
mufon who are

1165
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:05,040
abusive and bully have that bully

1166
00:46:10,309 --> 00:46:07,760
mentality absolutely i mean as a woman

1167
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:10,319
as a state director as somebody who was

1168
00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:13,680
volunteering 30 plus hours a week

1169
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:16,720
in an organization and making some good

1170
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:18,400
headway i mean i most definitely

1171
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:20,960
experience things that i wouldn't wish

1172
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:21,760
on

1173
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:25,119
another woman in the field and so

1174
00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:27,040
you know i mean that's why i've been

1175
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:29,200
kind of taking a a role where i want to

1176
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:30,720
talk out about this because it's

1177
00:46:34,150 --> 00:46:32,800
happening and and for whatever reason

1178
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:34,160
mufon

1179
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:36,880
have headquarters kind of chose to turn

1180
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:39,520
a blind eye to what was happening or

1181
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:41,599
whatever you know but

1182
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:43,760
yeah i mean i was it wasn't pleasant and

1183
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:46,720
i like i said i wish all of my friends

1184
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:47,760
who are

1185
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:49,040
intelligent

1186
00:46:53,349 --> 00:46:50,720
brilliant people who deserve to be

1187
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:53,359
supported and respected i wish them

1188
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:56,880
the best and for me leaving mufon has

1189
00:47:00,710 --> 00:46:58,640
been a very positive

1190
00:47:03,270 --> 00:47:00,720
uh experience

1191
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:03,280
now would you be specific about a few of

1192
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:04,800
the things that

1193
00:47:08,950 --> 00:47:06,960
kind of really upset you here because

1194
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:08,960
that would set the stage for

1195
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:11,520
our two other guests to respond

1196
00:47:15,829 --> 00:47:13,760
you know i think that in and i've been

1197
00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:15,839
i've talked to kathleen about this she's

1198
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:18,400
been supportive as a woman and a

1199
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:21,119
respectable person in the field um

1200
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:23,440
there were just a series of

1201
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:27,119
events that happened and i was i went in

1202
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:28,400
and took on

1203
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:29,440
not only

1204
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:32,400
trying to regroup a chapter that was in

1205
00:47:36,069 --> 00:47:34,400
complete disarray because elaine douglas

1206
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:36,079
had passed away

1207
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:38,240
and people here in utah were very very

1208
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:41,040
leery of mufon they didn't want anything

1209
00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:43,680
to do with it including marley spendlove

1210
00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:45,680
who was also assistant state director

1211
00:47:49,030 --> 00:47:47,040
for mufon

1212
00:47:51,670 --> 00:47:49,040
and so i had to try to

1213
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:51,680
to to rally the troops to get people

1214
00:47:57,109 --> 00:47:54,880
engaged again and then i also

1215
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,119
worked directly under jan harzan and i

1216
00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:00,240
would send out the monthly statistical

1217
00:48:04,550 --> 00:48:02,400
email blasts as well as the e-journal

1218
00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:04,560
blasts and i was

1219
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:07,040
attempting to work with headquarters on

1220
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:08,240
marketing

1221
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:09,280
because i

1222
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:11,200
being in business having a successful

1223
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:13,440
small business for the past 20 years you

1224
00:48:17,829 --> 00:48:16,000
know they're things that i know and and

1225
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:17,839
can bring to the table

1226
00:48:21,670 --> 00:48:19,680
i was trying to

1227
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:21,680
help headquarters kind of move in in a

1228
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:23,760
fresh approach where we're engaging the

1229
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:25,440
younger generation

1230
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:27,920
then i also did a lot of

1231
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:29,520
stuff behind the scenes for the

1232
00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:32,480
communications department with regard to

1233
00:48:37,349 --> 00:48:34,480
my to hanger one

1234
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:37,359
and so i i purchased software got the

1235
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:40,079
episodes uh before they were aired and

1236
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:43,359
interviewed and edited those interviews

1237
00:48:49,349 --> 00:48:44,240
for

1238
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:49,359
as many other things

1239
00:48:53,109 --> 00:48:51,119
and luckily i still have all of those

1240
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:53,119
emails back and forth between roger and

1241
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:54,640
jan and myself

1242
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:56,480
so i know

1243
00:49:01,589 --> 00:48:59,520
what i did and it became

1244
00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:01,599
evident towards the end that there were

1245
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:02,960
a couple people

1246
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:05,760
involved in mufon that were

1247
00:49:09,670 --> 00:49:07,760
didn't have the same

1248
00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:09,680
mindset and there were a series of

1249
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:11,040
things that happened towards the end

1250
00:49:14,309 --> 00:49:12,559
which i won't go

1251
00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:14,319
into in too much detail because i

1252
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:16,559
already discussed them on laureen

1253
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:18,240
fenton's show

1254
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:19,760
but it was

1255
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:21,680
it was a situation that was severe

1256
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,240
enough that i resigned and my assistant

1257
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:26,559
state director also resigned

1258
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:28,559
and now we have a situation where we

1259
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:30,800
don't have a utah

1260
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:32,400
chapter an effective utah chapter

1261
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:34,000
anymore which is unfortunate because

1262
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:36,079
there's so many great things that are

1263
00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:39,359
taking place in utah and it's it's i

1264
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:41,440
hope that at some point in time

1265
00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:43,680
utah will be represented with a good

1266
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:46,400
strong chapter here

1267
00:49:49,349 --> 00:49:47,920
kathleen

1268
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,359
yes

1269
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:51,280
what's your response to

1270
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:52,640
some of this

1271
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:55,920
well i i have to say first of all that i

1272
00:50:03,750 --> 00:49:59,920
have been a mufon member since 1991

1273
00:50:06,549 --> 00:50:03,760
for 10 years i was mufan's director of

1274
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:06,559
field investigator training

1275
00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:09,599
i am a person who does not become

1276
00:50:14,069 --> 00:50:12,400
personally involved in

1277
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:14,079
these struggles

1278
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,680
i am a very serious researcher

1279
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:19,440
and i

1280
00:50:25,349 --> 00:50:22,240
am highly focused upon the work that i

1281
00:50:28,549 --> 00:50:25,359
am doing to move ahead to accomplish

1282
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:28,559
things and i don't want to waste my time

1283
00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:29,680
on

1284
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:31,440
internal struggles

1285
00:50:36,390 --> 00:50:32,720
that said

1286
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:36,400
when internal struggles have occurred

1287
00:50:41,109 --> 00:50:39,280
i have simply stepped away

1288
00:50:44,309 --> 00:50:41,119
and

1289
00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:44,319
have not been involved in those i don't

1290
00:50:49,990 --> 00:50:47,200
like politics in organizations

1291
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:50,000
i realize that there are

1292
00:50:57,589 --> 00:50:54,240
some dysfunctional people in mufon there

1293
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:57,599
are dysfunctional people everywhere

1294
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:00,640
in organizations in families

1295
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:02,400
in the general public

1296
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:06,240
and it is something that

1297
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:08,480
has caused some people

1298
00:51:13,829 --> 00:51:09,920
to

1299
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:13,839
through

1300
00:51:17,910 --> 00:51:15,839
malicious gossip

1301
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:17,920
which is i think part of what has

1302
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:20,240
happened to erica

1303
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:21,440
and

1304
00:51:29,670 --> 00:51:22,400
uh

1305
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:29,680
mufon's director of experiencer research

1306
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:32,319
have been for about six years now i

1307
00:51:34,870 --> 00:51:33,440
think

1308
00:51:36,950 --> 00:51:34,880
let's pick up on this in the next

1309
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:36,960
segment with kathleen

1310
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:39,359
and erica and chase and gene and chris

1311
00:51:53,150 --> 00:51:52,309
thank you for listening to gcn

1312
00:51:57,670 --> 00:51:53,160
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1313
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1318
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officer is haunted by intense dreams

1319
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1320
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:14,319
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1321
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1322
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1323
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1324
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1350
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1352
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1355
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1356
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1357
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1363
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1364
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1365
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1366
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1367
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1368
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go to libertyoncall.org that's

1369
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[Applause]

1370
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:09,510
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1371
00:54:14,470 --> 00:54:13,200
standard of paranormal radio

1372
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:14,480
and now

1373
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:17,770
here's gene steinberg

1374
00:54:26,069 --> 00:54:24,710
glad to see that chris's voice is almost

1375
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:26,079
all the way there

1376
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:27,680
after what he's suffered

1377
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:29,359
good that you're getting back here we

1378
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:32,160
have erica and chase and kathleen

1379
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:34,240
kathleen you want to continue on that

1380
00:54:38,230 --> 00:54:35,760
thread that you were mentioning in the

1381
00:54:40,230 --> 00:54:38,240
previous segment or let's move on but i

1382
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:40,240
should say some positive things about

1383
00:54:44,710 --> 00:54:42,240
mufon too because

1384
00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:44,720
i i really think that jan horizon has

1385
00:54:50,470 --> 00:54:47,839
been a very strong and positive leader

1386
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:50,480
well the thing that i think bothers me

1387
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:52,800
and chris might as well

1388
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:55,760
is now we're seeing speakers go to move

1389
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:57,760
on events

1390
00:55:02,309 --> 00:54:58,640
that

1391
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:02,319
are at the very least controversial

1392
00:55:06,470 --> 00:55:04,559
and at worst may

1393
00:55:07,270 --> 00:55:06,480
denigrate from sending

1394
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:07,280
a

1395
00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:35,599
select

1396
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:36,400
the

1397
00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:40,960
speakers

1398
00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:43,520
at that conference

1399
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:45,280
some people

1400
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:49,040
are not i suppose familiar enough

1401
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:52,000
with some of these so-called researchers

1402
00:55:56,870 --> 00:55:54,640
in the field to know that some of them

1403
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:56,880
are well-known frauds

1404
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:58,559
and uh

1405
00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:01,359
have asked

1406
00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:03,839
these individuals to speak at

1407
00:56:08,549 --> 00:56:05,200
conferences

1408
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:08,559
not being aware of the facts

1409
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:10,319
but shouldn't there be vetting of that

1410
00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:12,880
if an individual state well director

1411
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:15,040
sets this up okay that's the point

1412
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:17,520
shouldn't there be i agree yes i agree

1413
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:18,559
with that

1414
00:56:23,670 --> 00:56:21,119
and i think that mufon and the board of

1415
00:56:24,549 --> 00:56:23,680
directors are taking a look at that

1416
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:24,559
and

1417
00:56:32,309 --> 00:56:27,200
now realize that there is a problem with

1418
00:56:34,390 --> 00:56:32,319
this and will vet speakers from now on

1419
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:34,400
well you know i i've got to jump in here

1420
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:35,920
uh having a personal experience to

1421
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:37,440
relate um

1422
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:40,480
the reverse is also true there's also um

1423
00:56:46,309 --> 00:56:43,520
in the case of of my particular

1424
00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:46,319
in in 1997 when they were starting to uh

1425
00:56:51,510 --> 00:56:49,760
to talk about the 1998 uh mufon some

1426
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:51,520
international symposium which was going

1427
00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:53,200
to be in in denver

1428
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:56,000
a number of the higher-ups uh the state

1429
00:56:58,549 --> 00:56:57,200
director and

1430
00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:58,559
quite a number of state section

1431
00:57:02,549 --> 00:57:00,079
directors

1432
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:02,559
were really uh

1433
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:04,400
very very interested in the work that i

1434
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:06,000
had been doing the past three or four

1435
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:08,160
years and the amount of activity that we

1436
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:09,760
were experiencing down in the san luis

1437
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:12,480
valley was just breathtaking and because

1438
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:14,559
i wasn't a member of mufon

1439
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:16,960
the higher ups that move on and i will

1440
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:18,480
name one person i don't want to speak of

1441
00:57:23,190 --> 00:57:20,480
the dead in a disparaging manner but

1442
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:23,200
walt dandruff said he is not speaking at

1443
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:24,720
our conference

1444
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,559
and so you know the weeks went by the

1445
00:57:29,910 --> 00:57:28,400
months went by and this was all going on

1446
00:57:31,030 --> 00:57:29,920
without me even knowing about it and

1447
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:31,040
then finally

1448
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:33,280
what happened was that they uh there was

1449
00:57:39,670 --> 00:57:36,559
a a revolt within colorado mufon and

1450
00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:39,680
they said if he doesn't speak

1451
00:57:43,510 --> 00:57:41,680
we are not going to host this event

1452
00:57:45,589 --> 00:57:43,520
because

1453
00:57:47,829 --> 00:57:45,599
which there's not many people know about

1454
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:47,839
this

1455
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:51,040
and so you know it went back and forth

1456
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:52,799
and it was you know it was like a

1457
00:57:57,910 --> 00:57:54,720
mexican standoff and then finally andrew

1458
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:57,920
said okay he can be the first speaker

1459
00:58:02,390 --> 00:57:59,280
at eight o'clock

1460
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:02,400
in the morning on thursday

1461
00:58:06,309 --> 00:58:04,400
and so that's when i spoke and i'll tell

1462
00:58:08,950 --> 00:58:06,319
you they had me in you know a little

1463
00:58:10,710 --> 00:58:08,960
room that could maybe seat 50 people

1464
00:58:12,470 --> 00:58:10,720
it was packed

1465
00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:12,480
and then overflowing

1466
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:14,000
and uh you know of course the whole

1467
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:15,680
conference went on there were a lot of

1468
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:18,880
great speakers i had tracy tormey and i

1469
00:58:23,589 --> 00:58:21,040
had a great time i actually

1470
00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:23,599
got to dogfield class with his walker

1471
00:58:27,990 --> 00:58:26,480
which i will always finally remember

1472
00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:28,000
but that gives you an example of the

1473
00:58:32,950 --> 00:58:30,400
exact opposite when the the state knows

1474
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:32,960
better than the international

1475
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:35,200
leadership what what's going on in their

1476
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:37,680
state and and they have a sense of you

1477
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:40,000
know who should be addressing uh the

1478
00:58:44,950 --> 00:58:42,079
conference to bring people up to speed

1479
00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:44,960
on an amazing wave of activity in you

1480
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:46,799
know looking at this particular instance

1481
00:58:53,030 --> 00:58:50,640
so i mean it works both ways

1482
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:53,040
it apparently does and you know i wasn't

1483
00:58:56,950 --> 00:58:55,359
aware of that scenario but you know

1484
00:59:00,390 --> 00:58:56,960
maybe that is

1485
00:59:01,829 --> 00:59:00,400
uh why the more power was given to the

1486
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:01,839
state

1487
00:59:07,109 --> 00:59:05,680
uh for that purpose

1488
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:07,119
but well the bottom line is if you're

1489
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:08,960
not a rank and file member of move fund

1490
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:11,280
uh you're you are not going to have your

1491
00:59:15,430 --> 00:59:12,880
work featured

1492
00:59:17,349 --> 00:59:15,440
at a mufon symposium which i've you know

1493
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:17,359
the past 20 years i mean i've never

1494
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:19,119
gotten an invitation to speak and move

1495
00:59:23,190 --> 00:59:21,280
on even though i feel i do good work and

1496
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:23,200
a lot of people could benefit by that

1497
00:59:28,870 --> 00:59:25,920
i'm inspirational i look at things from

1498
00:59:30,870 --> 00:59:28,880
out of the box i i attempt to bring

1499
00:59:33,349 --> 00:59:30,880
creative thinking and i'm just speaking

1500
00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:33,359
for not only myself but for a bunch of

1501
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:35,920
investigators and researchers out there

1502
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:38,480
who are not given the kind of exposure

1503
00:59:43,750 --> 00:59:41,359
to their work uh that would then inspire

1504
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:43,760
others uh to help them in their

1505
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:46,559
particular locale and uh you know this

1506
00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:49,200
is a real kind of a we're getting off

1507
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:53,200
topic here i i i feel the same is true

1508
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:55,760
about women interested in the field but

1509
01:00:01,430 --> 00:59:59,280
even doubly tripoli quadruply so uh

1510
01:00:04,549 --> 01:00:01,440
being a woman trying to trying to to

1511
01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:04,559
break into this whole field now

1512
01:00:09,109 --> 01:00:07,200
is different than it was 18 years ago 20

1513
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:09,119
years ago when chase

1514
01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:11,200
first started getting involved or

1515
01:00:15,510 --> 01:00:13,680
or you know a decade and a half ago when

1516
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:15,520
erica started getting involved in

1517
01:00:19,910 --> 01:00:16,799
yourself

1518
01:00:22,870 --> 01:00:19,920
kathleen when you got involved it's more

1519
01:00:25,589 --> 01:00:22,880
difficult i think now and i'm opening

1520
01:00:26,309 --> 01:00:25,599
this up for discussion but

1521
01:00:28,150 --> 01:00:26,319
for

1522
01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:28,160
young women wanting to get involved in

1523
01:00:31,589 --> 01:00:29,359
this field

1524
01:00:35,190 --> 01:00:31,599
they will say well you know forget ufos

1525
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:35,200
i'm going into haunting uh

1526
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:38,240
research or i'm going into uh uh you

1527
01:00:41,430 --> 01:00:39,680
know

1528
01:00:43,670 --> 01:00:41,440
any one of a number of

1529
01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:43,680
of disciplines that you can go into and

1530
01:00:48,710 --> 01:00:45,599
and become an investigator and a

1531
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:48,720
researcher ufology is becoming an ivy

1532
01:00:53,190 --> 01:00:51,839
tower men's men's thing uh it correct me

1533
01:00:55,589 --> 01:00:53,200
if i'm wrong you guys

1534
01:00:56,630 --> 01:00:55,599
i honestly just don't see it that way

1535
01:00:58,630 --> 01:00:56,640
and

1536
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:58,640
you know it's just me but i will i do

1537
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:00,160
want to say one thing

1538
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:03,440
like kathleen that drama i had back in

1539
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:04,960
2011

1540
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:06,319
with mufon

1541
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:08,880
you know i i just quit i went on my own

1542
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:10,640
way i did very well

1543
01:01:14,950 --> 01:01:12,720
on my own i was very happy you know

1544
01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:14,960
chris you you we've been friends for a

1545
01:01:19,829 --> 01:01:16,559
long time out here

1546
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:19,839
and um but i didn't join uh elaine

1547
01:01:25,349 --> 01:01:22,559
douglas and her reform move mufon

1548
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:25,359
movement because like kathleen i step

1549
01:01:28,870 --> 01:01:28,079
away from drama i want nothing to do

1550
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:28,880
with

1551
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:30,079
you know the

1552
01:01:34,309 --> 01:01:32,240
gossip part i'm just very uncomfortable

1553
01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:34,319
with all the confrontation and ugliness

1554
01:01:37,750 --> 01:01:35,040
and

1555
01:01:39,349 --> 01:01:37,760
literally work that's exactly what i do

1556
01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:39,359
as well so

1557
01:01:44,789 --> 01:01:42,160
um i find myself out of the loop on some

1558
01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:44,799
of this stuff very often unfortunately

1559
01:01:48,870 --> 01:01:46,559
but i think though i just have to throw

1560
01:01:51,349 --> 01:01:48,880
this in there i think that i mean we

1561
01:01:52,470 --> 01:01:51,359
know that there is gossip and ugliness

1562
01:01:54,789 --> 01:01:52,480
and there are people that we're

1563
01:01:57,990 --> 01:01:54,799
associated with that are are

1564
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:58,000
not being incredibly nice or supportive

1565
01:02:02,150 --> 01:02:00,640
in in the public sense and to me when

1566
01:02:04,630 --> 01:02:02,160
people are

1567
01:02:06,789 --> 01:02:04,640
being attacked that are simply trying to

1568
01:02:08,309 --> 01:02:06,799
do the best they can do i think that we

1569
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:08,319
have an obligation

1570
01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:09,760
especially when somebody's younger in

1571
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:12,720
the field to stand up and to

1572
01:02:18,390 --> 01:02:15,599
support them and to get involved and to

1573
01:02:20,549 --> 01:02:18,400
call out bad behavior and i think that

1574
01:02:22,150 --> 01:02:20,559
if we keep turning away from that then

1575
01:02:24,069 --> 01:02:22,160
then things are never going to change

1576
01:02:25,190 --> 01:02:24,079
and be productive for younger people in

1577
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:25,200
the field

1578
01:02:30,789 --> 01:02:27,920
and i disagree with the statement that

1579
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:30,799
it is more difficult than ever for women

1580
01:02:36,950 --> 01:02:33,760
to become involved in this field

1581
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:36,960
there are many women involved in the

1582
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:40,319
mutual ufo network there are many women

1583
01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:43,520
involved in important roles in

1584
01:02:49,030 --> 01:02:45,680
state directors or state assistant

1585
01:02:52,710 --> 01:02:49,040
directors and also at headquarters in

1586
01:02:54,470 --> 01:02:52,720
newton in in mufon and holding national

1587
01:02:55,349 --> 01:02:54,480
roles as well

1588
01:02:57,829 --> 01:02:55,359
uh

1589
01:03:01,109 --> 01:02:57,839
any young woman who wants to become

1590
01:03:03,589 --> 01:03:01,119
involved as a researcher has to go in

1591
01:03:06,390 --> 01:03:03,599
and has to learn the field and has to

1592
01:03:09,829 --> 01:03:06,400
work their way up you don't start at the

1593
01:03:13,190 --> 01:03:09,839
top and people need to realize that you

1594
01:03:15,670 --> 01:03:13,200
have to have knowledge to be respected

1595
01:03:18,549 --> 01:03:15,680
and you have to have accurate knowledge

1596
01:03:21,430 --> 01:03:18,559
you have to be a good researcher a good

1597
01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:21,440
investigator you have to be intelligent

1598
01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:22,240
and

1599
01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:24,480
these all of these things are very

1600
01:03:30,789 --> 01:03:27,280
important and i think women are moving

1601
01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:30,799
ahead i see more women speaking now at

1602
01:03:36,630 --> 01:03:34,000
conferences than i used to see when i

1603
01:03:38,150 --> 01:03:36,640
first began speaking let me just say

1604
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:38,160
something because we have to break in a

1605
01:03:43,510 --> 01:03:40,559
moment here in the international ufo

1606
01:03:45,270 --> 01:03:43,520
conference out of 20 speakers three were

1607
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:45,280
women more to come with

1608
01:03:49,670 --> 01:03:47,200
jean chris chase

1609
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:49,680
kathleen and erica you're in the

1610
01:03:59,270 --> 01:03:57,190
[Music]

1611
01:04:01,589 --> 01:03:59,280
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1613
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1615
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1616
01:04:11,510 --> 01:04:08,960
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1617
01:04:13,910 --> 01:04:11,520
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1618
01:04:14,950 --> 01:04:13,920
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1619
01:04:17,109 --> 01:04:14,960
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1620
01:04:19,109 --> 01:04:17,119
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1621
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:19,119
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1622
01:04:24,230 --> 01:04:21,839
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1623
01:04:26,710 --> 01:04:24,240
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01:04:41,589 --> 01:04:40,400
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1720
01:08:08,710 --> 01:08:05,200
comment or question about the paracast

1721
01:08:11,990 --> 01:08:08,720
send it to news at theparecast.com

1722
01:08:13,829 --> 01:08:12,000
that's news at theparacast.com

1723
01:08:16,229 --> 01:08:13,839
and don't forget to visit our famous

1724
01:08:20,470 --> 01:08:16,239
paracast community forums at

1725
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:21,669
let me tell our listeners we have a

1726
01:08:24,390 --> 01:08:23,600
second radio show we'd like you to hear

1727
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:24,400
it's called

1728
01:08:28,470 --> 01:08:26,719
after the power cast

1729
01:08:31,269 --> 01:08:28,480
and it's a mixture

1730
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:31,279
it includes color commentary general

1731
01:08:34,470 --> 01:08:32,319
chit chat

1732
01:08:37,349 --> 01:08:34,480
special guest stand your views and i

1733
01:08:39,510 --> 01:08:37,359
think a lot of people don't realize that

1734
01:08:42,870 --> 01:08:39,520
it's not just me and chris or another

1735
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:42,880
co-host is special guest interviews too

1736
01:08:46,870 --> 01:08:44,400
and the only way to hear it is to become

1737
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:46,880
a member of the power cast plus

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to find more go to plus p l u s dot

1739
01:08:58,070 --> 01:08:56,390
we offer also a commercial free version

1740
01:08:59,349 --> 01:08:58,080
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1741
01:09:00,789 --> 01:08:59,359
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1742
01:09:03,590 --> 01:09:00,799
check it out

1743
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prices start just a dollar 49 a week we

1744
01:09:10,390 --> 01:09:07,279
have kathleen and chris and jean and

1745
01:09:13,110 --> 01:09:10,400
chase and erica i'm not a proponent of

1746
01:09:15,269 --> 01:09:13,120
of everything's got to be 50 women 50

1747
01:09:17,749 --> 01:09:15,279
men i think uh obviously

1748
01:09:20,709 --> 01:09:17,759
that abilities uh

1749
01:09:22,630 --> 01:09:20,719
past experience and and stuff obviously

1750
01:09:24,870 --> 01:09:22,640
have to be factored in but looking at

1751
01:09:27,189 --> 01:09:24,880
the list of state directors and looking

1752
01:09:30,309 --> 01:09:27,199
at the board there is about a three or

1753
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:30,319
four to one almost of of men to women

1754
01:09:35,349 --> 01:09:32,640
and you know whether this is all based

1755
01:09:36,390 --> 01:09:35,359
on merit or not or whether it's based on

1756
01:09:38,950 --> 01:09:36,400
on some

1757
01:09:40,709 --> 01:09:38,960
obscure formula that we don't

1758
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:40,719
we're not privy to

1759
01:09:45,430 --> 01:09:43,040
there does seem to be a predominance of

1760
01:09:48,390 --> 01:09:45,440
males at the top of leadership positions

1761
01:09:50,390 --> 01:09:48,400
in mufon uh just like there is uh

1762
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:50,400
in in our culture

1763
01:09:54,310 --> 01:09:52,159
at large i mean it doesn't matter the

1764
01:09:55,510 --> 01:09:54,320
industry or the you know the business

1765
01:09:57,750 --> 01:09:55,520
type that you're looking at you're going

1766
01:10:00,149 --> 01:09:57,760
to find that men are pretty much

1767
01:10:02,390 --> 01:10:00,159
running things and uh with i don't want

1768
01:10:04,390 --> 01:10:02,400
to say token women involved because i

1769
01:10:06,310 --> 01:10:04,400
think maybe back in the 70s and early

1770
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:06,320
80s we could say token women now it's

1771
01:10:10,390 --> 01:10:08,400
different i think there is upward

1772
01:10:12,950 --> 01:10:10,400
mobility and women are being

1773
01:10:15,910 --> 01:10:12,960
acknowledged for their experience for

1774
01:10:17,910 --> 01:10:15,920
their savvy for their abilities equally

1775
01:10:21,910 --> 01:10:17,920
with men we still have a long way to go

1776
01:10:24,470 --> 01:10:21,920
kathleen we do and it takes time but we

1777
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:24,480
are moving forward and that's what is

1778
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:27,600
important you can't expect a huge change

1779
01:10:34,229 --> 01:10:31,120
overnight but i am seeing changes

1780
01:10:36,950 --> 01:10:34,239
uh and we are moving forward and and i'm

1781
01:10:40,550 --> 01:10:36,960
older than the other people here i grew

1782
01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:40,560
up in a society where women had very few

1783
01:10:45,110 --> 01:10:43,040
rights and was part of the women's

1784
01:10:48,950 --> 01:10:45,120
struggle for

1785
01:10:53,669 --> 01:10:48,960
equal rights for equal pay for jobs

1786
01:10:56,790 --> 01:10:53,679
and i feel that we have come a long way

1787
01:10:59,910 --> 01:10:56,800
in the ufo field and others might

1788
01:11:01,990 --> 01:10:59,920
disagree but no i absolutely agree and i

1789
01:11:04,550 --> 01:11:02,000
see that constantly and again i bring up

1790
01:11:06,390 --> 01:11:04,560
the fact that you know my star team

1791
01:11:07,750 --> 01:11:06,400
manager application

1792
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:07,760
i guess it didn't occur to me to put

1793
01:11:11,189 --> 01:11:09,440
down i was female it's one of the things

1794
01:11:13,830 --> 01:11:11,199
i left off the sheet but

1795
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:13,840
they absolutely gave me everything i

1796
01:11:17,430 --> 01:11:16,320
needed to succeed except that direct

1797
01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:17,440
boss

1798
01:11:22,709 --> 01:11:20,159
which was changed after i became manager

1799
01:11:26,630 --> 01:11:22,719
you know what i find is that if you want

1800
01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:26,640
to be that or if you want that be that

1801
01:11:31,990 --> 01:11:29,280
if you want respect you know we respect

1802
01:11:34,709 --> 01:11:32,000
each other if you want a close group of

1803
01:11:35,830 --> 01:11:34,719
people you need to operate very well in

1804
01:11:37,750 --> 01:11:35,840
that group

1805
01:11:39,750 --> 01:11:37,760
if you don't mind calling people out

1806
01:11:41,669 --> 01:11:39,760
like remember elaine douglas i mean

1807
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:41,679
she'd get out there and you know get off

1808
01:11:45,590 --> 01:11:44,159
radio shows and call out you know names

1809
01:11:46,550 --> 01:11:45,600
and things like that

1810
01:11:48,790 --> 01:11:46,560
and

1811
01:11:51,430 --> 01:11:48,800
then there's a response i just think

1812
01:11:53,110 --> 01:11:51,440
that sometimes out here that

1813
01:11:54,550 --> 01:11:53,120
people don't want to wait just like

1814
01:11:56,470 --> 01:11:54,560
kathleen was saying

1815
01:11:58,870 --> 01:11:56,480
you have to be in the group for a while

1816
01:12:00,229 --> 01:11:58,880
because so many come and go i think you

1817
01:12:02,310 --> 01:12:00,239
need to work

1818
01:12:04,470 --> 01:12:02,320
that should be the ultimate litmus test

1819
01:12:06,630 --> 01:12:04,480
what have you done lately

1820
01:12:09,590 --> 01:12:06,640
what does this about be i mean

1821
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:09,600
we have to to wait and then earn respect

1822
01:12:13,030 --> 01:12:11,520
and go through all these wrongs i mean

1823
01:12:15,030 --> 01:12:13,040
if somebody is new in this field and

1824
01:12:16,470 --> 01:12:15,040
they have good fresh ideas and they're

1825
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:16,480
willing to get out there and work they

1826
01:12:19,990 --> 01:12:17,760
should be supportive and they shouldn't

1827
01:12:22,630 --> 01:12:20,000
have to wait and not want to be able to

1828
01:12:24,470 --> 01:12:22,640
talk to others not what i said at all uh

1829
01:12:25,590 --> 01:12:24,480
what i'm saying is that when you're new

1830
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:25,600
coming in

1831
01:12:29,830 --> 01:12:27,760
you know you work your way there is a

1832
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:29,840
part of being here erica you've been

1833
01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:31,199
around long enough to know that

1834
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:33,760
sometimes new people don't stick around

1835
01:12:38,390 --> 01:12:35,760
and so are you going to make them you

1836
01:12:39,830 --> 01:12:38,400
know presidents and star team managers

1837
01:12:41,590 --> 01:12:39,840
if you don't know what they're capable

1838
01:12:43,750 --> 01:12:41,600
of what are their leadership skills what

1839
01:12:45,669 --> 01:12:43,760
do they like under pressure are they the

1840
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:45,679
first ones to turn around and start

1841
01:12:50,149 --> 01:12:47,679
digging up dirt on people and throwing

1842
01:12:52,550 --> 01:12:50,159
it out there you know we really need to

1843
01:12:55,030 --> 01:12:52,560
focus on the core

1844
01:12:56,870 --> 01:12:55,040
of you know who we're working with and

1845
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:56,880
it really comes down to ethics

1846
01:13:02,229 --> 01:13:00,239
personally i think when you work hard

1847
01:13:05,270 --> 01:13:02,239
erica we've even talked privately on a

1848
01:13:06,070 --> 01:13:05,280
telephone call and i believe i said then

1849
01:13:08,790 --> 01:13:06,080
that

1850
01:13:10,550 --> 01:13:08,800
the our merits as women is going to have

1851
01:13:12,790 --> 01:13:10,560
to come from work

1852
01:13:15,110 --> 01:13:12,800
what are we doing out here because i

1853
01:13:18,470 --> 01:13:15,120
don't really associate myself as a

1854
01:13:20,470 --> 01:13:18,480
female ufologist or a woman in ufology

1855
01:13:23,830 --> 01:13:20,480
guys i'm a ufo investigator and i'll

1856
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:23,840
stand in any arena with my skill sets

1857
01:13:29,110 --> 01:13:26,560
and work hard i mean we all will

1858
01:13:29,910 --> 01:13:29,120
yes but some of us have you know been

1859
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:29,920
through

1860
01:13:33,750 --> 01:13:31,440
a little different uh set of

1861
01:13:36,550 --> 01:13:33,760
circumstances where unfortunately being

1862
01:13:39,270 --> 01:13:36,560
a woman people say very slanderous

1863
01:13:41,270 --> 01:13:39,280
things because you're a woman i mean i

1864
01:13:43,189 --> 01:13:41,280
wish that i could say that i i could

1865
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:43,199
stand here and say hey everything's

1866
01:13:46,470 --> 01:13:44,880
great and i'm just gonna act like a man

1867
01:13:48,149 --> 01:13:46,480
and i mean i'm just one of these people

1868
01:13:50,149 --> 01:13:48,159
that's here and people are just looking

1869
01:13:52,229 --> 01:13:50,159
at me from my work i know i do good work

1870
01:13:53,910 --> 01:13:52,239
i know i will continue to do good work

1871
01:13:56,229 --> 01:13:53,920
and i know that i've been through things

1872
01:13:57,430 --> 01:13:56,239
and i've also talked to many other women

1873
01:13:59,189 --> 01:13:57,440
in the field that have been through

1874
01:14:01,750 --> 01:13:59,199
things that people shouldn't have to go

1875
01:14:03,910 --> 01:14:01,760
through and unless we're willing to

1876
01:14:05,270 --> 01:14:03,920
to work together and to support each

1877
01:14:07,430 --> 01:14:05,280
other as women

1878
01:14:10,149 --> 01:14:07,440
changes are not going to be made and we

1879
01:14:11,830 --> 01:14:10,159
really need to effectively

1880
01:14:14,390 --> 01:14:11,840
look at what's happening with the

1881
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:14,400
phenomenon and get some answers you know

1882
01:14:18,310 --> 01:14:15,760
we can't afford to wait around for

1883
01:14:19,590 --> 01:14:18,320
another 30 years while slow changes are

1884
01:14:20,950 --> 01:14:19,600
made we need to make some pretty

1885
01:14:23,110 --> 01:14:20,960
effective changes

1886
01:14:25,590 --> 01:14:23,120
well i guess i'm just not aware of any

1887
01:14:27,910 --> 01:14:25,600
big problems going on because it's

1888
01:14:30,070 --> 01:14:27,920
pretty smooth sailing where i'm sitting

1889
01:14:33,590 --> 01:14:30,080
and i don't mean that disrespectfully

1890
01:14:36,950 --> 01:14:33,600
erica i honestly i'm not hearing from

1891
01:14:40,070 --> 01:14:36,960
other women any problem some women have

1892
01:14:41,189 --> 01:14:40,080
been targeted by some very narrow-minded

1893
01:14:44,390 --> 01:14:41,199
men

1894
01:14:46,390 --> 01:14:44,400
for one reason or another i have to say

1895
01:14:49,030 --> 01:14:46,400
that when i

1896
01:14:50,149 --> 01:14:49,040
took over as director of experiencer

1897
01:14:53,030 --> 01:14:50,159
research

1898
01:14:57,270 --> 01:14:53,040
there was a small group of men who

1899
01:14:59,990 --> 01:14:57,280
appeared to be very angry about

1900
01:15:02,550 --> 01:15:00,000
the fact that i was actually

1901
01:15:05,430 --> 01:15:02,560
doing something that i was working with

1902
01:15:08,149 --> 01:15:05,440
a team to develop protocols for

1903
01:15:10,229 --> 01:15:08,159
abduction investigations that we were

1904
01:15:13,430 --> 01:15:10,239
moving forward on this instead of

1905
01:15:14,470 --> 01:15:13,440
ignoring it there were individuals

1906
01:15:16,790 --> 01:15:14,480
who

1907
01:15:20,630 --> 01:15:16,800
seemed very angry and

1908
01:15:23,830 --> 01:15:20,640
one who actually attempted to have me

1909
01:15:25,910 --> 01:15:23,840
thrown out fortunately i had kept all

1910
01:15:28,950 --> 01:15:25,920
the communication a very little

1911
01:15:31,350 --> 01:15:28,960
communication it was all respectful on

1912
01:15:33,110 --> 01:15:31,360
my part toward this man he was very

1913
01:15:36,550 --> 01:15:33,120
nasty toward me

1914
01:15:38,790 --> 01:15:36,560
and when it came down to it i was

1915
01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:38,800
exonerated because i had not done

1916
01:15:44,630 --> 01:15:41,440
anything wrong it was this individual

1917
01:15:48,149 --> 01:15:44,640
who had i had to prove myself but that

1918
01:15:50,470 --> 01:15:48,159
was only one point in time that i've had

1919
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:50,480
difficulty uh and i think that's how we

1920
01:15:54,470 --> 01:15:52,400
win kathleen you know it's the same

1921
01:15:57,189 --> 01:15:54,480
thing with my experience you know i had

1922
01:15:59,189 --> 01:15:57,199
trouble i handled it is the best way i

1923
01:16:01,189 --> 01:15:59,199
knew how i stood up and told the truth i

1924
01:16:03,990 --> 01:16:01,199
went very public with exactly what

1925
01:16:06,470 --> 01:16:04,000
happened i told the truth then i just

1926
01:16:09,189 --> 01:16:06,480
stayed busy and working and you know

1927
01:16:12,310 --> 01:16:09,199
eventually wasn't invited back but not

1928
01:16:14,709 --> 01:16:12,320
everybody's happy i guess i just don't

1929
01:16:16,870 --> 01:16:14,719
seem to have a lot of that in my court

1930
01:16:18,630 --> 01:16:16,880
and i don't mean to be disrespectful if

1931
01:16:20,470 --> 01:16:18,640
anyone has ever called me

1932
01:16:23,110 --> 01:16:20,480
erica you and i have talked in the past

1933
01:16:25,350 --> 01:16:23,120
i thought i gave good advice i thought i

1934
01:16:29,350 --> 01:16:25,360
helped i tried anyway

1935
01:16:31,189 --> 01:16:29,360
but um i just don't have a lot of things

1936
01:16:32,550 --> 01:16:31,199
that i could point out that are horrible

1937
01:16:35,189 --> 01:16:32,560
i just don't

1938
01:16:48,470 --> 01:16:38,470
we have jean and chris erica chase and

1939
01:16:52,910 --> 01:16:51,990
you are listening to gcn

1940
01:16:54,370 --> 01:16:52,920
visit

1941
01:16:56,950 --> 01:16:54,380
gcnlive.com today

1942
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[Music]

1943
01:16:59,189 --> 01:16:58,159
paid not attorney spokesperson adam

1944
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polisky of the palestinian law firm with

1945
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1946
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the attorney responsible for the content

1947
01:17:02,950 --> 01:17:02,159
of this ad this ad is not legal advice

1948
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and the choice of a lawyer should not be

1949
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basically on advertisement services may

1950
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not be available in all states attention

1951
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zarato users if you or a loved one took

1952
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xarelto and suffered a serious bleeding

1953
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event you may be entitled to financial

1954
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compensation xaroto is a popular

1955
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prescription blood thinner used to

1956
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prevent blood clots and protect patients

1957
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from strokes these serious bleeding

1958
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events have led to numerous cases of

1959
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1960
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1961
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1962
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the answer to being in control of your

1963
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1964
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insurance become part of a group of

1965
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self-pay patients that come together to

1966
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share in each other's medical expenses

1967
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1968
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1969
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1970
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1971
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1972
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available for dental vision and pharmacy

1973
01:17:58,709 --> 01:17:54,000
go to libertyoncall.org that's

1974
01:18:02,310 --> 01:18:00,470
hello i'm mike lindell the inventor of

1975
01:18:04,470 --> 01:18:02,320
my pillow and like all of you out there

1976
01:18:06,550 --> 01:18:04,480
i had problems sleeping pillows would go

1977
01:18:08,390 --> 01:18:06,560
flat i would flip-flop all night long i

1978
01:18:09,990 --> 01:18:08,400
would wake up with a sore neck maybe a

1979
01:18:11,669 --> 01:18:10,000
headache or feel like i needed a nap

1980
01:18:13,510 --> 01:18:11,679
even though i slept eight hours when i

1981
01:18:15,350 --> 01:18:13,520
invented my pillow i wanted it to where

1982
01:18:17,430 --> 01:18:15,360
you can move the patented fill to give

1983
01:18:19,669 --> 01:18:17,440
you the exact support you need as an

1984
01:18:21,430 --> 01:18:19,679
individual regardless of sleep position

1985
01:18:23,350 --> 01:18:21,440
my pillow will get you into that deep

1986
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rem sleep faster and you will stay there

1987
01:18:26,950 --> 01:18:25,199
longer it's not about how much time we

1988
01:18:29,270 --> 01:18:26,960
spend in bed it's about how much of that

1989
01:18:30,870 --> 01:18:29,280
quality sleep we get i do all of my own

1990
01:18:33,030 --> 01:18:30,880
manufacturing right here in the united

1991
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:33,040
states i have a 10 year warranty you can

1992
01:18:37,430 --> 01:18:35,040
wash and dry my pillow and i give you a

1993
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60 day money back guarantee so you have

1994
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nothing to lose and here's my best opera

1995
01:18:43,310 --> 01:18:41,440
ever you can buy one of my pillows and

1996
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get one absolutely free go to

1997
01:18:54,790 --> 01:18:49,990
800-870-0305 and use promo code gcn

1998
01:19:00,390 --> 01:18:58,229
with promo code gcn

1999
01:19:02,229 --> 01:19:00,400
hi this is ron paul i am a former

2000
01:19:04,870 --> 01:19:02,239
congressman physician and presidential

2001
01:19:07,910 --> 01:19:04,880
candidate the world is in turmoil things

2002
01:19:10,149 --> 01:19:07,920
like ebola earthquakes wars and famines

2003
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are commonplace as americans we are

2004
01:19:13,830 --> 01:19:12,239
largely sheltered from these events

2005
01:19:16,390 --> 01:19:13,840
however in parts of the world just

2006
01:19:18,310 --> 01:19:16,400
having enough food is a huge problem for

2007
01:19:20,630 --> 01:19:18,320
some of us there is the nagging thought

2008
01:19:22,790 --> 01:19:20,640
that we may not always have it so good

2009
01:19:25,110 --> 01:19:22,800
so we keep some food on hand just in

2010
01:19:27,189 --> 01:19:25,120
case my family and i have found a

2011
01:19:29,189 --> 01:19:27,199
product that helps us do this better

2012
01:19:31,990 --> 01:19:29,199
it's a home freeze dryer from harvest

2013
01:19:34,310 --> 01:19:32,000
right with it we eat healthier and store

2014
01:19:36,470 --> 01:19:34,320
a little more food we freeze dry

2015
01:19:39,669 --> 01:19:36,480
everything we love to eat and it lasts

2016
01:19:42,390 --> 01:19:39,679
up to 25 years who knows what the future

2017
01:19:44,950 --> 01:19:42,400
will bring one thing certain my family

2018
01:19:47,830 --> 01:19:44,960
and i will always have food on the table

2019
01:19:51,910 --> 01:19:47,840
to learn more go to harvestright.com or

2020
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:57,669
that's harvestright.com or 800-763-5999

2021
01:20:03,110 --> 01:20:00,470
dangerous blood clot device alert if you

2022
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or a loved one had an ivc filter placed

2023
01:20:07,110 --> 01:20:05,199
to prevent blood clots from traveling to

2024
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:07,120
your heart or lungs and suffered an

2025
01:20:11,270 --> 01:20:08,880
injury you may be entitled to

2026
01:20:14,149 --> 01:20:11,280
substantial financial compensation the

2027
01:20:16,470 --> 01:20:14,159
fda warns that ivc filters may cause

2028
01:20:19,030 --> 01:20:16,480
serious complications such as heart or

2029
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lung damage internal bleeding and even

2030
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death these dangerous blood clot devices

2031
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can break and the metal fragments can

2032
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travel to your heart or lungs causing

2033
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serious injuries if you or a loved one

2034
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suffered organ damage or other injuries

2035
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from an ivc filter you may be entitled

2036
01:20:38,310 --> 01:20:35,280
to substantial financial compensation

2037
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act now time is limited to file a claim

2038
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2039
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2040
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2041
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this is an advertisement paid

2042
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non-attorney spokesperson

2043
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injuryhelpdesk.com is responsible for

2044
01:21:00,360 --> 01:20:56,560
this advertisement principal office las

2045
01:21:07,030 --> 01:21:04,950
[Music]

2046
01:21:10,790 --> 01:21:07,040
hi it's grant cameron from presidential

2047
01:21:18,709 --> 01:21:10,800
ufo.com you're listening to the paracast

2048
01:21:24,229 --> 01:21:21,510
with gene and chris and the power cast

2049
01:21:26,950 --> 01:21:24,239
women's round table kathleen martin

2050
01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:26,960
erica luke's chase krotzky we're going

2051
01:21:30,870 --> 01:21:29,280
to continue with chris go ahead

2052
01:21:33,350 --> 01:21:30,880
we're all after the same thing we're

2053
01:21:36,229 --> 01:21:33,360
after uh understanding we're after

2054
01:21:37,669 --> 01:21:36,239
definitions even uh if you really want

2055
01:21:40,070 --> 01:21:37,679
to start at the

2056
01:21:41,910 --> 01:21:40,080
at the you know the basic route of of

2057
01:21:44,470 --> 01:21:41,920
what we're aspiring to here we're

2058
01:21:46,709 --> 01:21:44,480
aspiring to knowledge and understanding

2059
01:21:48,950 --> 01:21:46,719
and awareness and clarity when it comes

2060
01:21:51,830 --> 01:21:48,960
to these things and so we do have that

2061
01:21:53,350 --> 01:21:51,840
underpinnings of a universal kind of a

2062
01:21:55,590 --> 01:21:53,360
it doesn't matter if you're a man or a

2063
01:21:59,030 --> 01:21:55,600
woman that's what we're shooting for

2064
01:22:00,229 --> 01:21:59,040
and and what i'm hearing here is is that

2065
01:22:02,390 --> 01:22:00,239
we're not

2066
01:22:05,189 --> 01:22:02,400
necessarily dealing with

2067
01:22:07,669 --> 01:22:05,199
gender issues with people uh having

2068
01:22:09,590 --> 01:22:07,679
problems because of their a man or a

2069
01:22:11,590 --> 01:22:09,600
woman in this case a woman

2070
01:22:13,669 --> 01:22:11,600
but it's more sort of personal

2071
01:22:15,270 --> 01:22:13,679
differences that it doesn't matter who

2072
01:22:16,709 --> 01:22:15,280
you are if somebody disagrees with you

2073
01:22:19,590 --> 01:22:16,719
they're not going to you know be your

2074
01:22:21,669 --> 01:22:19,600
your ally or your friend i i do see

2075
01:22:22,470 --> 01:22:21,679
something a little bit more deeper and

2076
01:22:27,189 --> 01:22:22,480
and

2077
01:22:28,550 --> 01:22:27,199
i really do you know i've been i haven't

2078
01:22:30,870 --> 01:22:28,560
been in this field for that long not

2079
01:22:32,950 --> 01:22:30,880
like gene which you know it's like 40

2080
01:22:35,350 --> 01:22:32,960
plus years i've only been in this field

2081
01:22:37,030 --> 01:22:35,360
almost 25 years but over that time

2082
01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:37,040
period you know i've worked with quite a

2083
01:22:42,629 --> 01:22:40,400
number of women female investigators

2084
01:22:43,830 --> 01:22:42,639
some i could name them all off

2085
01:22:46,629 --> 01:22:43,840
if you'd like

2086
01:22:48,950 --> 01:22:46,639
you know i've been consistently hearing

2087
01:22:52,390 --> 01:22:48,960
that they don't feel that their work is

2088
01:22:53,669 --> 01:22:52,400
taken as seriously as men's work and i

2089
01:22:55,270 --> 01:22:53,679
think that is a

2090
01:22:58,229 --> 01:22:55,280
kind of the elephant in the room here

2091
01:23:00,550 --> 01:22:58,239
let's face it is linda bolton how when i

2092
01:23:01,910 --> 01:23:00,560
first was trained by linda to interview

2093
01:23:04,390 --> 01:23:01,920
people back in

2094
01:23:06,950 --> 01:23:04,400
90 early 94

2095
01:23:09,030 --> 01:23:06,960
god god bless her she she really

2096
01:23:11,270 --> 01:23:09,040
you know and i'll always be forever in

2097
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:11,280
her debt she is a very good uh

2098
01:23:16,310 --> 01:23:13,440
interviewer uh one of the best i've ever

2099
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:16,320
known uh and i mean that sincerely

2100
01:23:19,750 --> 01:23:17,920
uh she

2101
01:23:21,350 --> 01:23:19,760
would tell me that you know you know

2102
01:23:23,990 --> 01:23:21,360
chris it doesn't matter you know what

2103
01:23:26,229 --> 01:23:24,000
people think about me you know i'm on a

2104
01:23:29,510 --> 01:23:26,239
mission here i want to know what's going

2105
01:23:32,310 --> 01:23:29,520
on i want the truth and i always and

2106
01:23:34,950 --> 01:23:32,320
still to this day i admire uh for that

2107
01:23:37,350 --> 01:23:34,960
aspect of her work and one of the things

2108
01:23:39,430 --> 01:23:37,360
that she did say early on was that she

2109
01:23:41,910 --> 01:23:39,440
was really sick and tired of people not

2110
01:23:42,709 --> 01:23:41,920
taking her seriously you know i think

2111
01:23:44,229 --> 01:23:42,719
her

2112
01:23:46,070 --> 01:23:44,239
career if you want to call it that

2113
01:23:48,149 --> 01:23:46,080
anyone with a career in ufology is

2114
01:23:49,110 --> 01:23:48,159
suspect in my book but linda has a

2115
01:23:51,270 --> 01:23:49,120
career

2116
01:23:53,030 --> 01:23:51,280
in ufology and i would think that you

2117
01:23:55,750 --> 01:23:53,040
know looking at that career that

2118
01:23:57,830 --> 01:23:55,760
dispassionately um that she's actually

2119
01:23:59,510 --> 01:23:57,840
succeeded in being taken seriously

2120
01:24:00,709 --> 01:23:59,520
unfortunately

2121
01:24:03,669 --> 01:24:00,719
whether that

2122
01:24:04,709 --> 01:24:03,679
is accurate or not uh

2123
01:24:06,790 --> 01:24:04,719
i don't know

2124
01:24:07,669 --> 01:24:06,800
anyway correct me if i'm wrong here but

2125
01:24:09,430 --> 01:24:07,679
um

2126
01:24:11,910 --> 01:24:09,440
chase and kathleen are saying that uh

2127
01:24:12,870 --> 01:24:11,920
there's really nothing to uh any sort of

2128
01:24:14,870 --> 01:24:12,880
gender

2129
01:24:17,910 --> 01:24:14,880
inequality um

2130
01:24:19,590 --> 01:24:17,920
i absolutely identify that you know

2131
01:24:21,350 --> 01:24:19,600
women are not

2132
01:24:23,830 --> 01:24:21,360
you know our work isn't given the same

2133
01:24:26,709 --> 01:24:23,840
precedence as men and that we do have a

2134
01:24:29,350 --> 01:24:26,719
long way to go um i

2135
01:24:32,470 --> 01:24:29,360
i'm here saying that i just

2136
01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:32,480
not subject to a lot of

2137
01:24:37,189 --> 01:24:34,560
you know that discrimination you know

2138
01:24:39,910 --> 01:24:37,199
it's not i don't know how to fix that

2139
01:24:41,990 --> 01:24:39,920
other than be grateful um that you know

2140
01:24:44,470 --> 01:24:42,000
i have not been victim

2141
01:24:46,790 --> 01:24:44,480
to you know some of this

2142
01:24:48,790 --> 01:24:46,800
you know mistreatment because that's

2143
01:24:52,550 --> 01:24:48,800
just not my experience and i can't make

2144
01:24:55,270 --> 01:24:52,560
it so i'm not trying to act like a man

2145
01:24:57,590 --> 01:24:55,280
you know that's ridiculous i mean i love

2146
01:24:59,510 --> 01:24:57,600
being a girl obviously

2147
01:25:01,189 --> 01:24:59,520
i just work you know i'll stand on my

2148
01:25:03,350 --> 01:25:01,199
own merits and

2149
01:25:05,350 --> 01:25:03,360
you know as far as helping other women

2150
01:25:07,990 --> 01:25:05,360
in the field i'm very close to women and

2151
01:25:10,070 --> 01:25:08,000
have been since day one um i guess i

2152
01:25:12,470 --> 01:25:10,080
just didn't see

2153
01:25:14,629 --> 01:25:12,480
that you know there was this big group

2154
01:25:16,310 --> 01:25:14,639
out here because when i saw like elaine

2155
01:25:18,870 --> 01:25:16,320
douglas break away

2156
01:25:21,430 --> 01:25:18,880
to me it was just angry i don't want to

2157
01:25:23,590 --> 01:25:21,440
be part of anger you know and i think

2158
01:25:25,990 --> 01:25:23,600
anybody who knew elaine douglas probably

2159
01:25:28,149 --> 01:25:26,000
saw most of that being her motive with

2160
01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:28,159
this reform mufon group you know i

2161
01:25:33,189 --> 01:25:30,719
didn't join it you know i stood up and

2162
01:25:35,830 --> 01:25:33,199
and did my own thing again and was doing

2163
01:25:37,590 --> 01:25:35,840
quite well you know if if things come

2164
01:25:40,310 --> 01:25:37,600
across my table

2165
01:25:42,629 --> 01:25:40,320
i absolutely deal with it but i just

2166
01:25:45,669 --> 01:25:42,639
don't have the experiences where

2167
01:25:46,550 --> 01:25:45,679
you know i've been disrespected or have

2168
01:25:49,110 --> 01:25:46,560
been

2169
01:25:50,310 --> 01:25:49,120
belittled and shoved in a corner i i

2170
01:25:53,189 --> 01:25:50,320
just don't have it

2171
01:25:55,669 --> 01:25:53,199
i think that for me i have been very

2172
01:25:57,669 --> 01:25:55,679
fortunate to be closely associated with

2173
01:26:00,870 --> 01:25:57,679
stanton friedman

2174
01:26:03,910 --> 01:26:00,880
i'm a strong woman he's a strong man and

2175
01:26:06,790 --> 01:26:03,920
we found that we worked well together

2176
01:26:09,510 --> 01:26:06,800
we've written three books together we do

2177
01:26:13,189 --> 01:26:09,520
research together on a regular basis

2178
01:26:16,229 --> 01:26:13,199
work together on a regular basis and he

2179
01:26:19,350 --> 01:26:16,239
was highly respected before i was even

2180
01:26:22,470 --> 01:26:19,360
known he does have a great deal of

2181
01:26:25,030 --> 01:26:22,480
respect for me and for the work i do but

2182
01:26:27,590 --> 01:26:25,040
one thing that i have noticed is that

2183
01:26:29,510 --> 01:26:27,600
even though i was the major author on

2184
01:26:33,350 --> 01:26:29,520
two of our books meaning i wrote more

2185
01:26:36,550 --> 01:26:33,360
than 50 percent he in the field has

2186
01:26:40,310 --> 01:26:36,560
generally been given credit as

2187
01:26:43,110 --> 01:26:40,320
the primary author and researcher and me

2188
01:26:46,229 --> 01:26:43,120
as his assistant and he has worked very

2189
01:26:49,350 --> 01:26:46,239
hard to make it clear that i am not his

2190
01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:49,360
assistant any more than he is mine that

2191
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:50,400
we are

2192
01:26:54,470 --> 01:26:53,040
equal in the work that we do

2193
01:26:56,390 --> 01:26:54,480
kathleen i just have to say that you've

2194
01:26:59,669 --> 01:26:56,400
always i mean you and i have had many

2195
01:27:01,590 --> 01:26:59,679
conversations about this and about

2196
01:27:04,790 --> 01:27:01,600
moving forward and finding good

2197
01:27:07,189 --> 01:27:04,800
relationships and having a strong core

2198
01:27:10,229 --> 01:27:07,199
and you out of any woman in the field

2199
01:27:12,950 --> 01:27:10,239
has been so incredibly supportive to me

2200
01:27:16,070 --> 01:27:12,960
and you've really been an inspiration

2201
01:27:18,790 --> 01:27:16,080
to me as far as you know how do i handle

2202
01:27:21,430 --> 01:27:18,800
my career how do i roll through this

2203
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:21,440
lower level political nonsense and do

2204
01:27:25,510 --> 01:27:23,840
all of that and so i mean i i think it's

2205
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:25,520
it's really important to stress that

2206
01:27:29,590 --> 01:27:27,120
there are good women

2207
01:27:31,830 --> 01:27:29,600
out there like you that want to mentor

2208
01:27:34,390 --> 01:27:31,840
younger women coming into this and i

2209
01:27:37,270 --> 01:27:34,400
know i've appreciated that well i was

2210
01:27:38,950 --> 01:27:37,280
happy to help and i'm i'm happy to help

2211
01:27:43,189 --> 01:27:38,960
any woman who

2212
01:27:44,470 --> 01:27:43,199
comes to me and asks how to do this

2213
01:27:46,870 --> 01:27:44,480
what do you do

2214
01:27:48,950 --> 01:27:46,880
and so i think that that is is very

2215
01:27:51,189 --> 01:27:48,960
important thank you for saying that

2216
01:27:53,189 --> 01:27:51,199
erica that's true i mean it's i really

2217
01:27:56,870 --> 01:27:53,199
i've always thought that and you've been

2218
01:27:58,550 --> 01:27:56,880
such a light spot as far as this and and

2219
01:28:00,390 --> 01:27:58,560
kind of moving through this because you

2220
01:28:02,790 --> 01:28:00,400
know unfortunately when you get

2221
01:28:05,189 --> 01:28:02,800
started in this or you try to to come

2222
01:28:07,430 --> 01:28:05,199
out in a public way you know you're

2223
01:28:09,669 --> 01:28:07,440
you're subject to attacks that you're

2224
01:28:11,110 --> 01:28:09,679
not necessarily wouldn't be if you were

2225
01:28:13,350 --> 01:28:11,120
you know working at home on your

2226
01:28:15,510 --> 01:28:13,360
business or in a different

2227
01:28:17,830 --> 01:28:15,520
way you know and so it's important to

2228
01:28:19,750 --> 01:28:17,840
find support you're one of those people

2229
01:28:21,590 --> 01:28:19,760
i think there are other great women out

2230
01:28:23,990 --> 01:28:21,600
there that are doing

2231
01:28:26,550 --> 01:28:24,000
work and we need to support them any way

2232
01:28:29,270 --> 01:28:26,560
we can and and i i feel like you said

2233
01:28:30,629 --> 01:28:29,280
that good positive things are happening

2234
01:28:32,070 --> 01:28:30,639
and hopefully

2235
01:28:33,669 --> 01:28:32,080
through time and getting that younger

2236
01:28:35,430 --> 01:28:33,679
generation involved we'll see some of

2237
01:28:38,229 --> 01:28:35,440
this kind of old school

2238
01:28:40,310 --> 01:28:38,239
good old boys stuff fade away and we can

2239
01:28:43,110 --> 01:28:40,320
get some new research done

2240
01:28:46,629 --> 01:28:43,120
i hope so and i think that we're we're

2241
01:28:49,750 --> 01:28:46,639
moving toward that as women in our

2242
01:28:52,470 --> 01:28:49,760
society in general take a leadership

2243
01:28:54,070 --> 01:28:52,480
role more and more frequently than we

2244
01:28:55,990 --> 01:28:54,080
did in the past

2245
01:28:57,590 --> 01:28:56,000
yeah well it's it's happening it's like

2246
01:29:00,470 --> 01:28:57,600
that they're trying to

2247
01:29:02,470 --> 01:29:00,480
watch the minute hand on a clock

2248
01:29:03,910 --> 01:29:02,480
it's like a minute hand on the clock you

2249
01:29:05,830 --> 01:29:03,920
can look at it all you want but you're

2250
01:29:08,149 --> 01:29:05,840
not going to see it move even though you

2251
01:29:09,110 --> 01:29:08,159
know that it's moving fairly fairly

2252
01:29:10,550 --> 01:29:09,120
quickly

2253
01:29:14,629 --> 01:29:10,560
or

2254
01:29:17,110 --> 01:29:14,639
the term glacial i think is

2255
01:29:18,149 --> 01:29:17,120
appropriate i think we're seeing changes

2256
01:29:20,070 --> 01:29:18,159
within the

2257
01:29:22,830 --> 01:29:20,080
culture generally and then within

2258
01:29:25,510 --> 01:29:22,840
ufology and the paranormal realm um i

2259
01:29:28,470 --> 01:29:25,520
think i think it's more accurate that

2260
01:29:30,709 --> 01:29:28,480
you you're seeing glacial changes uh you

2261
01:29:34,070 --> 01:29:30,719
know it takes it takes a composite sort

2262
01:29:36,149 --> 01:29:34,080
of you know many years of of looking at

2263
01:29:38,390 --> 01:29:36,159
it to really

2264
01:29:39,669 --> 01:29:38,400
notice any change but i'm glad we've got

2265
01:29:41,510 --> 01:29:39,679
two out of three

2266
01:29:43,910 --> 01:29:41,520
women who are on our panel are saying

2267
01:29:45,110 --> 01:29:43,920
hey don't worry about it we haven't had

2268
01:29:47,430 --> 01:29:45,120
any problems

2269
01:29:49,110 --> 01:29:47,440
uh maybe there are problems but uh you

2270
01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:49,120
know we're we're moving forward we're

2271
01:29:53,189 --> 01:29:51,280
doing we're doing good you know let's

2272
01:29:55,100 --> 01:29:53,199
not rock the boat we might shake

2273
01:29:57,990 --> 01:29:55,110
ourselves out into the cold arctic

2274
01:30:00,070 --> 01:29:58,000
[Laughter]

2275
01:30:02,070 --> 01:30:00,080
you know again i i must say many of the

2276
01:30:04,310 --> 01:30:02,080
women that i've worked with over the

2277
01:30:06,870 --> 01:30:04,320
years are dead

2278
01:30:09,669 --> 01:30:06,880
and i really hate to say that leah haley

2279
01:30:11,510 --> 01:30:09,679
uh ellen crystal uh god rest her crazy

2280
01:30:14,310 --> 01:30:11,520
soul

2281
01:30:16,790 --> 01:30:14,320
i remember ellen crystal years ago

2282
01:30:18,149 --> 01:30:16,800
i think i met her once near her home in

2283
01:30:20,470 --> 01:30:18,159
new jersey

2284
01:30:24,390 --> 01:30:20,480
and that was the week of a star trek

2285
01:30:26,629 --> 01:30:24,400
convention so that would take it oh

2286
01:30:28,950 --> 01:30:26,639
probably to the early

2287
01:30:31,750 --> 01:30:28,960
1970s or thereabouts

2288
01:30:32,870 --> 01:30:31,760
very very interesting times for lots of

2289
01:30:34,390 --> 01:30:32,880
reasons

2290
01:30:36,229 --> 01:30:34,400
we got more to come

2291
01:30:39,830 --> 01:30:36,239
with jean chris

2292
01:30:49,590 --> 01:30:39,840
chase erica kathleen you're in the parry

2293
01:30:54,430 --> 01:30:53,110
thank you for listening to gcn

2294
01:30:57,270 --> 01:30:54,440
be sure to visit

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gcnlive.com today

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[Music]

2393
01:35:09,830 --> 01:35:07,840
this is jerome clark author of the ufo

2394
01:35:15,910 --> 01:35:09,840
encyclopedia and other books you're

2395
01:35:19,830 --> 01:35:17,590
chris sounded mad there because i

2396
01:35:22,870 --> 01:35:19,840
actually asked him to repeat the power

2397
01:35:24,229 --> 01:35:22,880
cast we've we've had some typical skype

2398
01:35:26,070 --> 01:35:24,239
problems because

2399
01:35:28,550 --> 01:35:26,080
sky problems are typical what are you

2400
01:35:30,470 --> 01:35:28,560
going to do about chris we also in our

2401
01:35:32,629 --> 01:35:30,480
final five segments have a few questions

2402
01:35:34,709 --> 01:35:32,639
from listeners if you think there's

2403
01:35:37,510 --> 01:35:34,719
something relevant to the issues being

2404
01:35:38,470 --> 01:35:37,520
discussed by erica kathleen and chase

2405
01:35:40,229 --> 01:35:38,480
please

2406
01:35:43,030 --> 01:35:40,239
don't hesitate

2407
01:35:45,750 --> 01:35:43,040
okay i won't hesitate

2408
01:35:48,470 --> 01:35:45,760
most of it's pretty specific to

2409
01:35:50,790 --> 01:35:48,480
kathleen's actually uh research and

2410
01:35:52,790 --> 01:35:50,800
investigative work there's one thing

2411
01:35:54,870 --> 01:35:52,800
that we've kind of already covered

2412
01:35:55,910 --> 01:35:54,880
in terms of negative treatment simply

2413
01:35:57,510 --> 01:35:55,920
because you're a woman in a male

2414
01:35:59,590 --> 01:35:57,520
dominated field we've we've already

2415
01:36:03,030 --> 01:35:59,600
covered that ground but uh

2416
01:36:05,110 --> 01:36:03,040
i originally envisioned this whole idea

2417
01:36:07,110 --> 01:36:05,120
of a woman's round table and

2418
01:36:09,669 --> 01:36:07,120
in bringing this subject and and putting

2419
01:36:11,110 --> 01:36:09,679
it front and center is not only

2420
01:36:13,510 --> 01:36:11,120
you know a way

2421
01:36:15,110 --> 01:36:13,520
to complain or or like a session

2422
01:36:16,310 --> 01:36:15,120
well this happened and this happened and

2423
01:36:17,990 --> 01:36:16,320
this happened but

2424
01:36:21,270 --> 01:36:18,000
you know i really wanted to look at this

2425
01:36:24,310 --> 01:36:21,280
as a way to move forward and to

2426
01:36:26,550 --> 01:36:24,320
come up with some ideas of how to

2427
01:36:28,390 --> 01:36:26,560
attract more women into the field and

2428
01:36:31,910 --> 01:36:28,400
the reason why i say this

2429
01:36:34,629 --> 01:36:31,920
is very simple i feel women in many

2430
01:36:36,790 --> 01:36:34,639
cases not all but many cases actually

2431
01:36:39,830 --> 01:36:36,800
are more effective out in the field

2432
01:36:41,750 --> 01:36:39,840
doing actual boots on the ground or

2433
01:36:44,310 --> 01:36:41,760
pumps on the ground if you will you know

2434
01:36:46,870 --> 01:36:44,320
i'm trying to stay away from male

2435
01:36:49,669 --> 01:36:46,880
cliches here but i find that women

2436
01:36:52,149 --> 01:36:49,679
actually are better suited have a better

2437
01:36:54,470 --> 01:36:52,159
bedside manner as i like to to call it

2438
01:36:57,109 --> 01:36:54,480
around experiencers who are very

2439
01:37:00,149 --> 01:36:57,119
vulnerable who feel uh in some cases

2440
01:37:03,590 --> 01:37:00,159
violated in other cases uh singled out i

2441
01:37:05,830 --> 01:37:03,600
think women are better equipped i think

2442
01:37:08,470 --> 01:37:05,840
just in terms of of their emotional

2443
01:37:11,990 --> 01:37:08,480
qualities a better equipped to

2444
01:37:14,149 --> 01:37:12,000
allow experiencers and and uh witnesses

2445
01:37:16,870 --> 01:37:14,159
to feel comfortable enough

2446
01:37:18,470 --> 01:37:16,880
to open up and really uh describe

2447
01:37:20,950 --> 01:37:18,480
their experience now

2448
01:37:23,590 --> 01:37:20,960
this doesn't hold true in totality

2449
01:37:25,590 --> 01:37:23,600
across uh across the field i think there

2450
01:37:27,350 --> 01:37:25,600
are some cases that uh it doesn't matter

2451
01:37:29,990 --> 01:37:27,360
who it is you're going to get the jack

2452
01:37:31,910 --> 01:37:30,000
webb dates times facts uh just the facts

2453
01:37:35,669 --> 01:37:31,920
ma'am but it's the cases that have the

2454
01:37:37,830 --> 01:37:35,679
nuances of possibly you know something

2455
01:37:40,070 --> 01:37:37,840
unsettling things that make one feel

2456
01:37:40,950 --> 01:37:40,080
emotionally vulnerable i think women are

2457
01:37:42,229 --> 01:37:40,960
better

2458
01:37:44,070 --> 01:37:42,239
at getting

2459
01:37:47,109 --> 01:37:44,080
people to feel comfortable but enough to

2460
01:37:49,510 --> 01:37:47,119
open up now i say this because i was

2461
01:37:51,350 --> 01:37:49,520
involved in a very intense case one of

2462
01:37:53,510 --> 01:37:51,360
the most intense cases i've ever been

2463
01:37:55,669 --> 01:37:53,520
called in on i just happened to be with

2464
01:37:57,590 --> 01:37:55,679
rosemary ellen guyley

2465
01:37:59,910 --> 01:37:57,600
we went up and we investigated three

2466
01:38:01,510 --> 01:37:59,920
cases up where i used to live in the san

2467
01:38:03,030 --> 01:38:01,520
luis valley

2468
01:38:06,870 --> 01:38:03,040
i was so

2469
01:38:09,030 --> 01:38:06,880
amazed at her effortless ability to get

2470
01:38:11,189 --> 01:38:09,040
people who normally to me probably

2471
01:38:13,510 --> 01:38:11,199
wouldn't have opened up period let alone

2472
01:38:15,350 --> 01:38:13,520
to the extent they did with her and i

2473
01:38:17,830 --> 01:38:15,360
just sat back and took notes and i i

2474
01:38:19,270 --> 01:38:17,840
felt like i was in investigative school

2475
01:38:20,709 --> 01:38:19,280
and this is coming from someone that had

2476
01:38:23,990 --> 01:38:20,719
already been in the field you know

2477
01:38:25,270 --> 01:38:24,000
almost 20 years and had investigated

2478
01:38:27,430 --> 01:38:25,280
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of

2479
01:38:28,470 --> 01:38:27,440
cases and you know interviewed thousands

2480
01:38:31,590 --> 01:38:28,480
of people

2481
01:38:33,669 --> 01:38:31,600
so just based on that single experience

2482
01:38:36,310 --> 01:38:33,679
i really feel that the women are an

2483
01:38:38,550 --> 01:38:36,320
untapped resource for the field i really

2484
01:38:40,950 --> 01:38:38,560
feel that i'm glad that you guys are

2485
01:38:42,870 --> 01:38:40,960
kind of slowly proving me wrong here but

2486
01:38:44,709 --> 01:38:42,880
you know what can i say i mean that's my

2487
01:38:46,390 --> 01:38:44,719
own personal experience and

2488
01:38:47,910 --> 01:38:46,400
like i said i've worked with women all

2489
01:38:50,390 --> 01:38:47,920
through my my

2490
01:38:53,669 --> 01:38:50,400
25 years of doing this and you know

2491
01:38:56,310 --> 01:38:53,679
rosemary gail stalin in her own way i

2492
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:56,320
mentioned linda howe obviously already

2493
01:39:03,510 --> 01:38:58,960
there's others uh nancy talbot i think

2494
01:39:05,830 --> 01:39:03,520
uh in some ways uh has some real

2495
01:39:07,830 --> 01:39:05,840
interesting uh approaches uh to the

2496
01:39:11,990 --> 01:39:07,840
subject matter that i think her or her

2497
01:39:13,830 --> 01:39:12,000
own her own debbie zigglemeyer who

2498
01:39:16,470 --> 01:39:13,840
i haven't worked with debbie she's very

2499
01:39:17,990 --> 01:39:16,480
very uh good uh she's i mean come on

2500
01:39:20,229 --> 01:39:18,000
she's on the board of directors to move

2501
01:39:22,390 --> 01:39:20,239
on one of two women i think out of seven

2502
01:39:25,990 --> 01:39:22,400
or eight board members

2503
01:39:27,590 --> 01:39:26,000
debbie's good uh phyllis buttoner

2504
01:39:29,590 --> 01:39:27,600
yeah i mean she's you couldn't really

2505
01:39:31,990 --> 01:39:29,600
call her an investigator but in terms of

2506
01:39:34,629 --> 01:39:32,000
a researcher absolutely she's one of the

2507
01:39:36,629 --> 01:39:34,639
very few period male or female that have

2508
01:39:39,189 --> 01:39:36,639
even you know had the courage to touch

2509
01:39:41,189 --> 01:39:39,199
the subject i was so happy when she

2510
01:39:44,550 --> 01:39:41,199
agreed to do the paracast because she

2511
01:39:46,470 --> 01:39:44,560
rarely does uh any any radio or media

2512
01:39:47,590 --> 01:39:46,480
so what i'm hearing here basically let

2513
01:39:49,590 --> 01:39:47,600
me sum all this up i've been

2514
01:39:51,750 --> 01:39:49,600
monopolizing the conversation too long

2515
01:39:53,270 --> 01:39:51,760
here but what i'm what i'm hearing is

2516
01:39:55,030 --> 01:39:53,280
you know they're maybe not as big of a

2517
01:39:57,910 --> 01:39:55,040
problem as you think that things are

2518
01:39:59,590 --> 01:39:57,920
progressing and it's all more of

2519
01:40:02,550 --> 01:39:59,600
interpersonal relationships as opposed

2520
01:40:05,189 --> 01:40:02,560
to gender relationships or gender issues

2521
01:40:09,510 --> 01:40:05,199
so let's take it to the next level here

2522
01:40:11,270 --> 01:40:09,520
what can we do to help attract more

2523
01:40:13,430 --> 01:40:11,280
talented women investigators and

2524
01:40:15,669 --> 01:40:13,440
researchers to the field or do we even

2525
01:40:17,669 --> 01:40:15,679
have to i think that like you said it's

2526
01:40:19,189 --> 01:40:17,679
imperative to attract women

2527
01:40:21,510 --> 01:40:19,199
researchers to the field because we have

2528
01:40:23,669 --> 01:40:21,520
a much different way of dealing

2529
01:40:26,070 --> 01:40:23,679
with and looking at

2530
01:40:27,590 --> 01:40:26,080
different cases and dealing with people

2531
01:40:29,750 --> 01:40:27,600
i mean i think we can look at things in

2532
01:40:31,750 --> 01:40:29,760
a much broader sense which is what we're

2533
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:31,760
going to need to do if we want to make

2534
01:40:35,910 --> 01:40:34,080
true breakthroughs in this field instead

2535
01:40:38,550 --> 01:40:35,920
of that kind of nuts and bolts very

2536
01:40:41,030 --> 01:40:38,560
narrow-minded approach to research which

2537
01:40:43,990 --> 01:40:41,040
we have seen that hasn't necessarily

2538
01:40:45,910 --> 01:40:44,000
worked over the past 50 years and you

2539
01:40:47,590 --> 01:40:45,920
know it's vital that we make a

2540
01:40:49,109 --> 01:40:47,600
difference that we also

2541
01:40:51,430 --> 01:40:49,119
really talk about ethics and

2542
01:40:53,669 --> 01:40:51,440
professional standards and as

2543
01:40:56,070 --> 01:40:53,679
researchers that we abide by those and

2544
01:40:58,229 --> 01:40:56,080
support people that are coming into the

2545
01:41:00,950 --> 01:40:58,239
field and and i believe that we have to

2546
01:41:02,629 --> 01:41:00,960
talk about issues and and address them

2547
01:41:03,590 --> 01:41:02,639
and i think that that will help a great

2548
01:41:07,270 --> 01:41:03,600
deal

2549
01:41:10,390 --> 01:41:07,280
i agree with erica i think that women

2550
01:41:11,590 --> 01:41:10,400
tend to be more compassionate and more

2551
01:41:15,910 --> 01:41:11,600
empathetic

2552
01:41:18,229 --> 01:41:15,920
than men in the way that we are wired

2553
01:41:22,149 --> 01:41:18,239
going back many many years if you look

2554
01:41:25,350 --> 01:41:22,159
at the very old cases of alien abduction

2555
01:41:27,910 --> 01:41:25,360
when there were women present who were

2556
01:41:31,030 --> 01:41:27,920
part of the people who were abducted

2557
01:41:35,109 --> 01:41:31,040
it was always vital to have a woman

2558
01:41:37,590 --> 01:41:35,119
there who would make those women feel

2559
01:41:40,470 --> 01:41:37,600
more comfortable so

2560
01:41:42,950 --> 01:41:40,480
we have a very long history of having

2561
01:41:43,990 --> 01:41:42,960
women involved with women who have been

2562
01:41:45,590 --> 01:41:44,000
abducted

2563
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:45,600
and i think that is very important for

2564
01:41:50,950 --> 01:41:48,320
women to be nuts and bolts investigators

2565
01:41:54,390 --> 01:41:50,960
too we had there are many things denise

2566
01:41:58,390 --> 01:41:54,400
stoner who is my co-author on the alien

2567
01:42:01,350 --> 01:41:58,400
abduction files is a top notch nuts and

2568
01:42:03,910 --> 01:42:01,360
bolts type researcher she has all the

2569
01:42:07,109 --> 01:42:03,920
gadgets she measures everything i go out

2570
01:42:10,149 --> 01:42:07,119
on investigations with her and i have

2571
01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:10,159
never been more impressed by anyone's

2572
01:42:15,669 --> 01:42:13,679
methodology than i have been by denise's

2573
01:42:18,310 --> 01:42:15,679
and she has been an investigator for

2574
01:42:21,669 --> 01:42:18,320
quite a long time agree with kathleen

2575
01:42:25,109 --> 01:42:21,679
it's it's a combination of intelligence

2576
01:42:28,149 --> 01:42:25,119
and dignity and the ethical

2577
01:42:30,070 --> 01:42:28,159
fibers that we project everywhere we go

2578
01:42:33,270 --> 01:42:30,080
in these investigations we have to stick

2579
01:42:36,070 --> 01:42:33,280
with scientific methods because all the

2580
01:42:38,790 --> 01:42:36,080
retelling in the world isn't convincing

2581
01:42:41,510 --> 01:42:38,800
anyone so looking for that admissibility

2582
01:42:44,550 --> 01:42:41,520
and burden of proof but women also bring

2583
01:42:47,109 --> 01:42:44,560
that intuitive nature i joke with my

2584
01:42:49,590 --> 01:42:47,119
kids and tell them i can smell it coming

2585
01:42:51,910 --> 01:42:49,600
you know i can feel it coming i i don't

2586
01:42:53,910 --> 01:42:51,920
even have to see it with my own eyes i

2587
01:42:56,709 --> 01:42:53,920
can tell you exactly what's going on

2588
01:42:59,430 --> 01:42:56,719
maybe it's a mom thing i'm not sure but

2589
01:43:01,590 --> 01:42:59,440
absolutely and i see women joining we

2590
01:43:04,550 --> 01:43:01,600
have several women who have just joined

2591
01:43:06,950 --> 01:43:04,560
mufon and are coming up

2592
01:43:08,870 --> 01:43:06,960
one that i'd like to point out is carrie

2593
01:43:11,350 --> 01:43:08,880
mcclure you know less than a year in

2594
01:43:13,350 --> 01:43:11,360
bouffan already writing articles already

2595
01:43:14,470 --> 01:43:13,360
being recognized moving up very very

2596
01:43:16,550 --> 01:43:14,480
quickly

2597
01:43:18,470 --> 01:43:16,560
because of her skill set because one of

2598
01:43:21,189 --> 01:43:18,480
the best things about mufon there is no

2599
01:43:24,149 --> 01:43:21,199
tenure so i'm watching these young women

2600
01:43:25,910 --> 01:43:24,159
who i've known carrie um you know her as

2601
01:43:28,629 --> 01:43:25,920
well kathleen from

2602
01:43:31,030 --> 01:43:28,639
she's anna's mom when anna the little

2603
01:43:32,310 --> 01:43:31,040
girl came out um at the conference that

2604
01:43:34,310 --> 01:43:32,320
yeah

2605
01:43:36,149 --> 01:43:34,320
she's a wonderful woman i we're very

2606
01:43:37,990 --> 01:43:36,159
close we have been working very closely

2607
01:43:40,790 --> 01:43:38,000
for a number of years and actually do

2608
01:43:42,790 --> 01:43:40,800
the field reports that's our uh research

2609
01:43:45,590 --> 01:43:42,800
page the two of us together

2610
01:43:47,270 --> 01:43:45,600
and she's remarkable so these younger

2611
01:43:49,750 --> 01:43:47,280
women are joining

2612
01:43:51,669 --> 01:43:49,760
again you know i i think

2613
01:43:52,470 --> 01:43:51,679
some here have me at a disadvantage

2614
01:43:55,350 --> 01:43:52,480
because

2615
01:43:56,870 --> 01:43:55,360
i'm seeing younger women thrive and do

2616
01:43:59,350 --> 01:43:56,880
very well out here

2617
01:44:01,189 --> 01:43:59,360
um maybe i don't know

2618
01:44:02,790 --> 01:44:01,199
i i just

2619
01:44:05,030 --> 01:44:02,800
run with a different crowd i have no

2620
01:44:07,350 --> 01:44:05,040
idea guys all i know is that it's very

2621
01:44:10,310 --> 01:44:07,360
positive i see good things happening and

2622
01:44:12,629 --> 01:44:10,320
excellent i'm really happy to hear that

2623
01:44:14,310 --> 01:44:12,639
personally but chris you know me like i

2624
01:44:17,189 --> 01:44:14,320
have no problem standing up telling the

2625
01:44:19,189 --> 01:44:17,199
truth and calling it out either but yeah

2626
01:44:20,950 --> 01:44:19,199
you're very very upfront

2627
01:44:23,189 --> 01:44:20,960
and no holds barred

2628
01:44:25,109 --> 01:44:23,199
so is erica kathleen's a little bit more

2629
01:44:27,350 --> 01:44:25,119
measured but i think she has to be in

2630
01:44:28,790 --> 01:44:27,360
the kind of role that that she finds

2631
01:44:32,790 --> 01:44:28,800
herself in

2632
01:44:35,590 --> 01:44:32,800
gene forget about jane me i yeah boy

2633
01:44:36,950 --> 01:44:35,600
to a fault

2634
01:44:38,790 --> 01:44:36,960
it's it's one thing that people don't

2635
01:44:42,070 --> 01:44:38,800
like about me is that i'm too out front

2636
01:44:45,669 --> 01:44:42,080
and i call it call like it is too much

2637
01:44:46,950 --> 01:44:45,679
you know me chris i'm always measured

2638
01:44:47,830 --> 01:44:46,960
in

2639
01:44:49,350 --> 01:44:47,840
and my

2640
01:44:51,510 --> 01:44:49,360
you had some real good teachers i'll

2641
01:44:53,350 --> 01:44:51,520
tell you um

2642
01:44:54,790 --> 01:44:53,360
you know it's it's important people you

2643
01:44:56,950 --> 01:44:54,800
know fail to realize that when you have

2644
01:44:58,550 --> 01:44:56,960
big organizations uh

2645
01:45:00,550 --> 01:44:58,560
you have politics and when you have

2646
01:45:03,109 --> 01:45:00,560
little tiny minuscule organizations like

2647
01:45:05,910 --> 01:45:03,119
mufon relatively speaking you also have

2648
01:45:07,990 --> 01:45:05,920
politics so uh you know large groups of

2649
01:45:10,950 --> 01:45:08,000
people tend to uh shake out

2650
01:45:12,430 --> 01:45:10,960
uh in almost predictable ways and uh

2651
01:45:14,629 --> 01:45:12,440
it's you know it's the

2652
01:45:16,629 --> 01:45:14,639
institutionalization of

2653
01:45:19,270 --> 01:45:16,639
the field that uh

2654
01:45:20,790 --> 01:45:19,280
you know maybe is a problem maybe not um

2655
01:45:22,629 --> 01:45:20,800
i i think an issue that we haven't

2656
01:45:25,270 --> 01:45:22,639
talked about as well

2657
01:45:27,910 --> 01:45:25,280
is um the role of the media

2658
01:45:38,390 --> 01:45:27,920
more to come with jean chris erica chase

2659
01:45:42,950 --> 01:45:39,510
[Applause]

2660
01:45:47,030 --> 01:45:42,960
thank you for listening to gcn

2661
01:45:49,350 --> 01:45:47,040
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2662
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2668
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2669
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2670
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2671
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2672
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2696
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2697
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2698
01:47:22,229 --> 01:47:20,400
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2699
01:47:24,070 --> 01:47:22,239
money you can't pay are tax debts

2700
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crippling you i've defended people from

2701
01:47:28,550 --> 01:47:26,480
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

2702
01:47:29,910 --> 01:47:28,560
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

2703
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2704
01:47:35,350 --> 01:47:31,679
telling you there's no such thing as a

2705
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hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

2706
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2707
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2708
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2709
01:47:50,560 --> 01:47:45,760
tax that's 800 34 no tax or my website

2710
01:47:50,570 --> 01:47:55,270
[Applause]

2711
01:48:02,229 --> 01:47:58,550
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2712
01:48:03,430 --> 01:48:02,239
standard of paranormal radio

2713
01:48:06,790 --> 01:48:03,440
and now

2714
01:48:10,310 --> 01:48:06,800
here's jane steinberg

2715
01:48:14,790 --> 01:48:12,629
we continue with our women's roundtable

2716
01:48:16,149 --> 01:48:14,800
with chase erica

2717
01:48:18,870 --> 01:48:16,159
and kathleen

2718
01:48:21,189 --> 01:48:18,880
and jean and chris are what the ring

2719
01:48:22,629 --> 01:48:21,199
masters we're just letting them do their

2720
01:48:24,550 --> 01:48:22,639
thing chris

2721
01:48:27,470 --> 01:48:24,560
well before we went to break you know i

2722
01:48:29,830 --> 01:48:27,480
was talking about the whole idea of of

2723
01:48:31,030 --> 01:48:29,840
institutionalization of of subject

2724
01:48:32,709 --> 01:48:31,040
matter and

2725
01:48:35,270 --> 01:48:32,719
of gender roles and that sort of thing

2726
01:48:37,910 --> 01:48:35,280
we've discussed this a lot but then you

2727
01:48:38,709 --> 01:48:37,920
get into the uh the the deep dark realm

2728
01:48:44,709 --> 01:48:38,719
of

2729
01:48:47,350 --> 01:48:44,719
the peanut gallery that always has

2730
01:48:49,590 --> 01:48:47,360
something to say and sometimes uh sits

2731
01:48:52,870 --> 01:48:49,600
in positions of power when it comes to

2732
01:48:53,990 --> 01:48:52,880
uh you know uh radio programs and uh

2733
01:48:56,470 --> 01:48:54,000
media

2734
01:48:58,790 --> 01:48:56,480
sort of outlets and and sources for

2735
01:49:00,790 --> 01:48:58,800
getting the word out about about about

2736
01:49:02,790 --> 01:49:00,800
the work uh to the public

2737
01:49:05,510 --> 01:49:02,800
we've seen quite a bit of unscrupulous

2738
01:49:07,990 --> 01:49:05,520
activity i in my estimation

2739
01:49:10,149 --> 01:49:08,000
not only in uh people

2740
01:49:11,669 --> 01:49:10,159
stealing other people's work and and

2741
01:49:14,070 --> 01:49:11,679
putting their own name on it sort of

2742
01:49:16,310 --> 01:49:14,080
gross plagiarization but also stealing

2743
01:49:18,550 --> 01:49:16,320
their intellectual property releasing

2744
01:49:21,030 --> 01:49:18,560
dvds without permission

2745
01:49:23,669 --> 01:49:21,040
this sort of thing and also you have

2746
01:49:25,669 --> 01:49:23,679
certain male players

2747
01:49:27,590 --> 01:49:25,679
out there in the media when it comes to

2748
01:49:30,790 --> 01:49:27,600
podcasts and that sort of thing

2749
01:49:33,430 --> 01:49:30,800
that um i think erica described one of

2750
01:49:36,310 --> 01:49:33,440
probably many examples a particular uh

2751
01:49:39,910 --> 01:49:36,320
individual who who plays the gender card

2752
01:49:41,590 --> 01:49:39,920
uh unabashedly and uh really is

2753
01:49:43,030 --> 01:49:41,600
is a neanderthal

2754
01:49:45,750 --> 01:49:43,040
and so

2755
01:49:50,470 --> 01:49:45,760
you know kathleen chase erica let's talk

2756
01:49:55,109 --> 01:49:50,480
about how the field is being embraced by

2757
01:49:58,470 --> 01:49:55,119
a mainly male punditry if you will or or

2758
01:50:00,070 --> 01:49:58,480
critics uh commentators people that

2759
01:50:02,550 --> 01:50:00,080
are behind the scenes

2760
01:50:04,229 --> 01:50:02,560
moving in shaken uh with media outlets

2761
01:50:06,870 --> 01:50:04,239
and that sort of thing have you noticed

2762
01:50:08,629 --> 01:50:06,880
that there's a gender bias

2763
01:50:11,189 --> 01:50:08,639
in that particular realm

2764
01:50:13,430 --> 01:50:11,199
boy that's a tough question

2765
01:50:15,990 --> 01:50:13,440
there there do appear to be more male

2766
01:50:19,430 --> 01:50:16,000
commentators than female commentators

2767
01:50:20,470 --> 01:50:19,440
but i've been on some radio shows with

2768
01:50:23,669 --> 01:50:20,480
some

2769
01:50:24,390 --> 01:50:23,679
top-notch female commentators i would

2770
01:50:27,109 --> 01:50:24,400
say

2771
01:50:29,830 --> 01:50:27,119
and what is important is the quality not

2772
01:50:31,990 --> 01:50:29,840
the quantity in my mind i mean of course

2773
01:50:33,830 --> 01:50:32,000
it would be great to have more top-notch

2774
01:50:35,990 --> 01:50:33,840
women commentators

2775
01:50:38,709 --> 01:50:36,000
but they have to make the decision that

2776
01:50:39,510 --> 01:50:38,719
they want to do this as well

2777
01:50:41,990 --> 01:50:39,520
and

2778
01:50:43,270 --> 01:50:42,000
you know erica has a very good radio

2779
01:50:47,350 --> 01:50:43,280
show i've been

2780
01:50:48,550 --> 01:50:47,360
on her show a few times and i'm aware of

2781
01:50:51,430 --> 01:50:48,560
one

2782
01:50:52,629 --> 01:50:51,440
female commentator and i'm not going to

2783
01:50:56,149 --> 01:50:52,639
name her

2784
01:50:58,870 --> 01:50:56,159
but i have seen through social media

2785
01:50:59,910 --> 01:50:58,880
that she is under attack by a number of

2786
01:51:02,790 --> 01:50:59,920
men

2787
01:51:05,350 --> 01:51:02,800
i don't know the reason she doesn't seem

2788
01:51:06,550 --> 01:51:05,360
to fight back or anything but i i feel

2789
01:51:08,709 --> 01:51:06,560
sympathetic

2790
01:51:11,669 --> 01:51:08,719
nevertheless because she does a very

2791
01:51:12,709 --> 01:51:11,679
fine job in the interviews that i've had

2792
01:51:14,229 --> 01:51:12,719
with her

2793
01:51:15,990 --> 01:51:14,239
yeah and i i think i know who you're

2794
01:51:17,350 --> 01:51:16,000
referring to and she is

2795
01:51:19,669 --> 01:51:17,360
an amazing

2796
01:51:23,109 --> 01:51:19,679
woman and and it's sad that that kind of

2797
01:51:25,189 --> 01:51:23,119
thing happens but i think with regard to

2798
01:51:26,070 --> 01:51:25,199
specifically you know what i've been

2799
01:51:28,229 --> 01:51:26,080
through

2800
01:51:30,070 --> 01:51:28,239
and having people that are in the

2801
01:51:32,709 --> 01:51:30,080
entertainment industry that have kind of

2802
01:51:35,270 --> 01:51:32,719
glommed onto this field that have made

2803
01:51:37,669 --> 01:51:35,280
uh slanderous statements about me

2804
01:51:40,390 --> 01:51:37,679
multiple times and this has been more

2805
01:51:42,470 --> 01:51:40,400
than one person but to see that

2806
01:51:44,790 --> 01:51:42,480
repeatedly is not only

2807
01:51:46,629 --> 01:51:44,800
well it's illegal i mean but but for

2808
01:51:48,390 --> 01:51:46,639
whatever reason people think that this

2809
01:51:49,350 --> 01:51:48,400
is the wild west and they can go out

2810
01:51:52,229 --> 01:51:49,360
there and

2811
01:51:54,070 --> 01:51:52,239
attack personally whoever they want to

2812
01:51:56,070 --> 01:51:54,080
and get away with it and that's where

2813
01:51:57,990 --> 01:51:56,080
that whole sexism comes into play it's

2814
01:51:59,750 --> 01:51:58,000
because you know you've got this well

2815
01:52:01,990 --> 01:51:59,760
she's a woman she could she must have

2816
01:52:04,470 --> 01:52:02,000
just slept her way to the top or this

2817
01:52:05,990 --> 01:52:04,480
different kind of behavior things that

2818
01:52:07,350 --> 01:52:06,000
are out there and people

2819
01:52:09,910 --> 01:52:07,360
that are our

2820
01:52:11,350 --> 01:52:09,920
mouthpieces for organizations are are

2821
01:52:13,030 --> 01:52:11,360
saying these things and i think that

2822
01:52:14,229 --> 01:52:13,040
really needs to be

2823
01:52:16,229 --> 01:52:14,239
addressed

2824
01:52:18,470 --> 01:52:16,239
because it's a poor reflection on the

2825
01:52:20,390 --> 01:52:18,480
organization and the good people that

2826
01:52:22,470 --> 01:52:20,400
work for the organization and i think

2827
01:52:24,550 --> 01:52:22,480
that the people that associate with

2828
01:52:26,550 --> 01:52:24,560
people that are known bullies and

2829
01:52:27,990 --> 01:52:26,560
abusers like that i think that people

2830
01:52:29,910 --> 01:52:28,000
out there that are listening you need to

2831
01:52:32,629 --> 01:52:29,920
look and pay attention and see how

2832
01:52:34,470 --> 01:52:32,639
people behave on social media and see

2833
01:52:36,470 --> 01:52:34,480
who they follow and how they treat other

2834
01:52:38,070 --> 01:52:36,480
human beings and then you need to look

2835
01:52:40,950 --> 01:52:38,080
at the people that associate with them

2836
01:52:42,870 --> 01:52:40,960
and say aha okay well maybe we shouldn't

2837
01:52:44,950 --> 01:52:42,880
take this person seriously because

2838
01:52:46,950 --> 01:52:44,960
they're they're uh

2839
01:52:48,709 --> 01:52:46,960
friends or associates with people that

2840
01:52:49,750 --> 01:52:48,719
abuse people

2841
01:52:52,709 --> 01:52:49,760
hmm

2842
01:52:54,390 --> 01:52:52,719
interesting i you know um i've retired

2843
01:52:56,870 --> 01:52:54,400
from radio so i haven't been on for

2844
01:52:58,870 --> 01:52:56,880
quite a while and everyone knows i've

2845
01:53:01,669 --> 01:52:58,880
backed off a social media after the

2846
01:53:02,950 --> 01:53:01,679
election oh my gosh i couldn't stand the

2847
01:53:05,669 --> 01:53:02,960
infighting

2848
01:53:08,870 --> 01:53:05,679
it was you know i just i don't have time

2849
01:53:11,430 --> 01:53:08,880
for drama so i completely

2850
01:53:13,350 --> 01:53:11,440
move away from that but you know i kind

2851
01:53:15,030 --> 01:53:13,360
of see it everywhere it's you know

2852
01:53:17,589 --> 01:53:15,040
almost this new

2853
01:53:19,990 --> 01:53:17,599
thing called social media where you can

2854
01:53:21,430 --> 01:53:20,000
say anything you want and it's

2855
01:53:23,189 --> 01:53:21,440
completely

2856
01:53:26,390 --> 01:53:23,199
um you know

2857
01:53:28,229 --> 01:53:26,400
there's no ramifications you know so you

2858
01:53:31,109 --> 01:53:28,239
know there's

2859
01:53:32,709 --> 01:53:31,119
a lot of problems i think with this

2860
01:53:35,910 --> 01:53:32,719
field it's

2861
01:53:37,430 --> 01:53:35,920
um especially with the radio now that um

2862
01:53:40,390 --> 01:53:37,440
the wild west i think i heard it

2863
01:53:43,830 --> 01:53:40,400
mentioned and i absolutely agree

2864
01:53:45,990 --> 01:53:43,840
um but again it depends on

2865
01:53:47,510 --> 01:53:46,000
you know just where you're spending your

2866
01:53:49,910 --> 01:53:47,520
time i'm not going to spend it on

2867
01:53:51,669 --> 01:53:49,920
facebook drama can't i can't deal with

2868
01:53:53,830 --> 01:53:51,679
it um

2869
01:53:56,390 --> 01:53:53,840
and just but i think it's a mindset that

2870
01:53:59,189 --> 01:53:56,400
comes from this whole social media thing

2871
01:54:02,470 --> 01:53:59,199
where people could say anything and

2872
01:54:04,790 --> 01:54:02,480
one thing i i have noticed is that

2873
01:54:07,350 --> 01:54:04,800
i just don't want to get into the tick

2874
01:54:09,109 --> 01:54:07,360
for tact type of thing so

2875
01:54:10,709 --> 01:54:09,119
you know it's um you just kind of keep

2876
01:54:12,229 --> 01:54:10,719
your yard clean

2877
01:54:14,550 --> 01:54:12,239
and

2878
01:54:16,390 --> 01:54:14,560
not pay attention be so busy in your own

2879
01:54:18,550 --> 01:54:16,400
yard you don't know if the neighbor's

2880
01:54:20,149 --> 01:54:18,560
grass is greener is the best way i can

2881
01:54:21,189 --> 01:54:20,159
put it and that's basically where i'm

2882
01:54:23,589 --> 01:54:21,199
going

2883
01:54:25,990 --> 01:54:23,599
i do see those problems i do hear of

2884
01:54:28,629 --> 01:54:26,000
radio shows that have said really

2885
01:54:31,109 --> 01:54:28,639
mean mean things about even what people

2886
01:54:33,990 --> 01:54:31,119
look like and it's

2887
01:54:35,669 --> 01:54:34,000
horrible horrible at the depths that you

2888
01:54:37,750 --> 01:54:35,679
know people will go

2889
01:54:39,669 --> 01:54:37,760
you know for what a rating attention why

2890
01:54:41,830 --> 01:54:39,679
would they even do this it's something i

2891
01:54:43,990 --> 01:54:41,840
don't understand so

2892
01:54:46,310 --> 01:54:44,000
you know i i just

2893
01:54:48,390 --> 01:54:46,320
don't know how to fix it so

2894
01:54:51,350 --> 01:54:48,400
well

2895
01:54:53,430 --> 01:54:51,360
the classic definition uh the

2896
01:54:55,750 --> 01:54:53,440
psychologist would be projection they're

2897
01:54:59,109 --> 01:54:55,760
basically identifying aspects of the

2898
01:55:01,350 --> 01:54:59,119
other individual uh that they're

2899
01:55:04,149 --> 01:55:01,360
not comfortable with in themselves and

2900
01:55:06,550 --> 01:55:04,159
so that comes out as as a form of attack

2901
01:55:08,629 --> 01:55:06,560
and unfortunately there's a lot of

2902
01:55:10,790 --> 01:55:08,639
of people that live very shallow lives

2903
01:55:12,149 --> 01:55:10,800
um that need to project

2904
01:55:14,950 --> 01:55:12,159
uh

2905
01:55:16,950 --> 01:55:14,960
their inadequacies onto other people in

2906
01:55:18,550 --> 01:55:16,960
order for them to feel

2907
01:55:21,189 --> 01:55:18,560
to feel um

2908
01:55:23,270 --> 01:55:21,199
worthy it all boils down to worthiness i

2909
01:55:25,109 --> 01:55:23,280
think in a lot of ways well and i'm too

2910
01:55:27,030 --> 01:55:25,119
busy i don't want to get involved with

2911
01:55:28,709 --> 01:55:27,040
that stuff and you know and then it

2912
01:55:31,350 --> 01:55:28,719
makes me sound like i'm not going to

2913
01:55:33,510 --> 01:55:31,360
care about the problem i can guarantee

2914
01:55:35,189 --> 01:55:33,520
you that anyone that's ever called me

2915
01:55:38,870 --> 01:55:35,199
with the problem i've spent time with

2916
01:55:40,229 --> 01:55:38,880
them and have done my best

2917
01:55:43,030 --> 01:55:40,239
you know but

2918
01:55:44,070 --> 01:55:43,040
as far as looking out here and seeing

2919
01:55:46,950 --> 01:55:44,080
all this

2920
01:55:49,750 --> 01:55:46,960
again i must just be in a

2921
01:55:52,709 --> 01:55:49,760
decent fear group because i'm just not

2922
01:55:54,149 --> 01:55:52,719
hearing a lot of this and and i don't

2923
01:55:56,390 --> 01:55:54,159
know if that's a good thing or not i'm

2924
01:55:58,470 --> 01:55:56,400
going to say it is because

2925
01:56:01,669 --> 01:55:58,480
you know i just

2926
01:56:04,390 --> 01:56:01,679
we work there's just no drama and i work

2927
01:56:07,430 --> 01:56:04,400
very closely with a lot of women and we

2928
01:56:08,229 --> 01:56:07,440
just don't have this and i just i don't

2929
01:56:10,950 --> 01:56:08,239
know

2930
01:56:13,030 --> 01:56:10,960
i think we also have to be careful of

2931
01:56:14,950 --> 01:56:13,040
you know what we do project you know how

2932
01:56:16,550 --> 01:56:14,960
how are we behaving because if we're not

2933
01:56:19,270 --> 01:56:16,560
getting the reaction

2934
01:56:20,950 --> 01:56:19,280
from the public and and people we come

2935
01:56:23,109 --> 01:56:20,960
across strangers if we're not getting

2936
01:56:25,750 --> 01:56:23,119
reaction from them we want

2937
01:56:29,270 --> 01:56:25,760
um sometimes it's best in ourselves

2938
01:56:32,629 --> 01:56:30,310
yeah

2939
01:56:35,510 --> 01:56:32,639
i think that this is an endemic problem

2940
01:56:37,350 --> 01:56:35,520
in our society that really agree

2941
01:56:39,350 --> 01:56:37,360
kathleen totally agree

2942
01:56:41,030 --> 01:56:39,360
this needs to be dealt with

2943
01:56:43,189 --> 01:56:41,040
there is

2944
01:56:46,870 --> 01:56:43,199
a mindset where

2945
01:56:47,830 --> 01:56:46,880
bullying is okay uh and

2946
01:56:49,830 --> 01:56:47,840
you

2947
01:56:52,149 --> 01:56:49,840
never used to see

2948
01:56:56,229 --> 01:56:52,159
adult bullying uh

2949
01:56:59,589 --> 01:56:56,239
as far as as i can remember but now we

2950
01:57:02,709 --> 01:56:59,599
have a society where people are less

2951
01:57:05,830 --> 01:57:02,719
likely to interact with one another face

2952
01:57:09,109 --> 01:57:05,840
to face we no longer partake in the

2953
01:57:12,229 --> 01:57:09,119
activities that we did before

2954
01:57:16,070 --> 01:57:12,239
we were wired up to the kind of

2955
01:57:16,870 --> 01:57:16,080
technology that we have and it seems to

2956
01:57:18,470 --> 01:57:16,880
be

2957
01:57:22,550 --> 01:57:18,480
de-socializing

2958
01:57:25,430 --> 01:57:22,560
people in our society and creating this

2959
01:57:28,149 --> 01:57:25,440
problem where people feel comfortable

2960
01:57:30,070 --> 01:57:28,159
bullying one another where people behave

2961
01:57:32,310 --> 01:57:30,080
in a very immature

2962
01:57:33,750 --> 01:57:32,320
way let's cover that in more detail in

2963
01:57:36,550 --> 01:57:33,760
the next segment i want to say a few

2964
01:57:38,709 --> 01:57:36,560
things we've got kathleen and chase and

2965
01:57:46,310 --> 01:57:38,719
erica and jean and chris you're in the

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3016
02:00:01,030 --> 01:59:59,199
there's a much better way the minuteman

3017
02:00:03,109 --> 02:00:01,040
rocket stove is a biomass burning

3018
02:00:05,109 --> 02:00:03,119
cooking stove that only requires small

3019
02:00:06,870 --> 02:00:05,119
quantities of sticks and twigs for fuel

3020
02:00:08,550 --> 02:00:06,880
the minuteman stove is easy to use

3021
02:00:10,470 --> 02:00:08,560
smokeless portable powerful and

3022
02:00:12,390 --> 02:00:10,480
sustainable for the finest in survival

3023
02:00:14,350 --> 02:00:12,400
cooking stoves and fire starters made

3024
02:00:15,669 --> 02:00:14,360
right here in the usa go to

3025
02:00:18,390 --> 02:00:15,679
minutemanstove.com that's

3026
02:00:20,470 --> 02:00:18,400
minutemanstove.com

3027
02:00:22,790 --> 02:00:20,480
hi there dick allgier here i was a

3028
02:00:26,629 --> 02:00:22,800
mainstream television news reporter for

3029
02:00:28,709 --> 02:00:26,639
over three decades i normally never do

3030
02:00:31,030 --> 02:00:28,719
commercial endorsements i am very

3031
02:00:32,790 --> 02:00:31,040
skeptical of health supplements but a

3032
02:00:35,189 --> 02:00:32,800
friend of mine told me about his

3033
02:00:37,189 --> 02:00:35,199
experience with synergy one so i

3034
02:00:39,669 --> 02:00:37,199
purchased a bottle and my wife and i

3035
02:00:41,910 --> 02:00:39,679
have been using it for a few weeks now i

3036
02:00:43,990 --> 02:00:41,920
very much dislike so-called energy

3037
02:00:46,550 --> 02:00:44,000
boosters those little energy drinks that

3038
02:00:48,629 --> 02:00:46,560
have caffeine and guarana and other

3039
02:00:51,510 --> 02:00:48,639
things that make your heart race this is

3040
02:00:54,070 --> 02:00:51,520
not that my experience with synergy one

3041
02:00:56,390 --> 02:00:54,080
has been great my mood is better my

3042
02:00:59,750 --> 02:00:56,400
joints feel better i have more vigor

3043
02:01:02,390 --> 02:00:59,760
more stamina way increased productivity

3044
02:01:05,350 --> 02:01:02,400
my wife and i both noticed that we even

3045
02:01:07,430 --> 02:01:05,360
dream more so i recommend synergy one

3046
02:01:10,589 --> 02:01:07,440
it's really good stuff i'm having great

3047
02:01:12,830 --> 02:01:10,599
results with it call

3048
02:01:17,589 --> 02:01:12,840
888-988-3325 or visit

3049
02:01:21,030 --> 02:01:19,109
this is dan pillow do you have the irs

3050
02:01:22,870 --> 02:01:21,040
money you can't pay are tax debts

3051
02:01:25,189 --> 02:01:22,880
crippling you i've defended people from

3052
02:01:27,270 --> 02:01:25,199
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

3053
02:01:28,709 --> 02:01:27,280
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

3054
02:01:30,390 --> 02:01:28,719
the book on irs settlement and i'm

3055
02:01:34,070 --> 02:01:30,400
telling you there's no such thing as a

3056
02:01:36,310 --> 02:01:34,080
hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

3057
02:01:37,830 --> 02:01:36,320
get free of irs debt with the irs's new

3058
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programs there's never been a better

3059
02:01:44,550 --> 02:01:40,719
time to solve your problem call 834 no

3060
02:01:49,669 --> 02:01:44,560
tax that's 800 34 no tax on my website

3061
02:01:54,390 --> 02:01:51,910
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

3062
02:01:57,910 --> 02:01:54,400
comment or question about the paracast

3063
02:02:01,189 --> 02:01:57,920
send it to news at theparacast.com

3064
02:02:03,030 --> 02:02:01,199
that's news at theparacast.com

3065
02:02:05,510 --> 02:02:03,040
and don't forget to visit our famous

3066
02:02:09,830 --> 02:02:05,520
paracast community forums at

3067
02:02:14,070 --> 02:02:11,589
a reminder again that if you want to

3068
02:02:15,030 --> 02:02:14,080
hear the after the powercast podcast you

3069
02:02:17,030 --> 02:02:15,040
must

3070
02:02:19,910 --> 02:02:17,040
be a member of the powercast plus at

3071
02:02:22,629 --> 02:02:19,920
plus dot the powercast.com

3072
02:02:25,030 --> 02:02:22,639
plus.powercast.com

3073
02:02:26,709 --> 02:02:25,040
the women's roundtable with erica chase

3074
02:02:29,510 --> 02:02:26,719
and kathleen

3075
02:02:32,950 --> 02:02:29,520
and of course unfortunately in the ufo

3076
02:02:34,950 --> 02:02:32,960
field and online in general

3077
02:02:36,870 --> 02:02:34,960
people i guess because of the anonymity

3078
02:02:39,270 --> 02:02:36,880
of the internet

3079
02:02:41,510 --> 02:02:39,280
can behave badly

3080
02:02:43,910 --> 02:02:41,520
it's all over the place i mean to some

3081
02:02:46,149 --> 02:02:43,920
degree it happens in forms too we

3082
02:02:48,390 --> 02:02:46,159
sort of put the reins on it in the power

3083
02:02:51,589 --> 02:02:48,400
cast forms we give people freedom

3084
02:02:53,910 --> 02:02:51,599
but we don't allow them to be excessive

3085
02:02:54,629 --> 02:02:53,920
about what they do and we put a stop to

3086
02:02:56,229 --> 02:02:54,639
it

3087
02:02:58,550 --> 02:02:56,239
so i'm not surprised when i hear things

3088
02:03:01,830 --> 02:02:58,560
like that yeah no also the reverse is

3089
02:03:03,189 --> 02:03:01,840
true i mean i've been uh chastised for

3090
02:03:06,390 --> 02:03:03,199
some of the things that i've said even

3091
02:03:08,149 --> 02:03:06,400
though uh they were meant in jest i've

3092
02:03:09,990 --> 02:03:08,159
had women totally

3093
02:03:11,490 --> 02:03:10,000
attack me

3094
02:03:12,709 --> 02:03:11,500
how dare you say something

3095
02:03:14,790 --> 02:03:12,719
[Music]

3096
02:03:17,189 --> 02:03:14,800
so what if you said chris that did this

3097
02:03:19,109 --> 02:03:17,199
let's start some trouble

3098
02:03:20,870 --> 02:03:19,119
well i'm not gonna no no no i'm not

3099
02:03:24,149 --> 02:03:20,880
gonna go there uh

3100
02:03:30,229 --> 02:03:28,070
but the shall we say it's the wife of a

3101
02:03:31,510 --> 02:03:30,239
former publisher of a popular uh

3102
02:03:34,950 --> 02:03:31,520
magazine

3103
02:03:39,030 --> 02:03:37,510
i think we know who that is comment like

3104
02:03:40,870 --> 02:03:39,040
uh you know you must have dropped a

3105
02:03:42,709 --> 02:03:40,880
stitch in your knitting or just some you

3106
02:03:45,510 --> 02:03:42,719
know really stupid

3107
02:03:47,510 --> 02:03:45,520
you know kind of ironic you know

3108
02:03:49,669 --> 02:03:47,520
tongue-in-cheek uh

3109
02:03:52,310 --> 02:03:49,679
possibly a little bit out of place

3110
02:03:55,430 --> 02:03:52,320
comment and i'll tell you

3111
02:03:57,690 --> 02:03:55,440
man did i get i was like oh boy i really

3112
02:03:59,750 --> 02:03:57,700
gotta rethink this social media thing

3113
02:04:02,310 --> 02:03:59,760
[Music]

3114
02:04:04,470 --> 02:04:02,320
you know it was totally taken seriously

3115
02:04:07,270 --> 02:04:04,480
and like i was being misogynist and

3116
02:04:09,030 --> 02:04:07,280
being a you know and that's one this

3117
02:04:10,790 --> 02:04:09,040
particular incident actually is one of

3118
02:04:11,750 --> 02:04:10,800
the things that uh prompted me to even

3119
02:04:12,550 --> 02:04:11,760
consider

3120
02:04:15,030 --> 02:04:12,560
you know

3121
02:04:16,709 --> 02:04:15,040
approaching uh all of you about having

3122
02:04:18,790 --> 02:04:16,719
this round table because

3123
02:04:20,550 --> 02:04:18,800
you know i see that happen with women

3124
02:04:22,629 --> 02:04:20,560
all the time and when it happens to a

3125
02:04:25,350 --> 02:04:22,639
guy it's like comes out of the blue like

3126
02:04:27,270 --> 02:04:25,360
whoa

3127
02:04:29,270 --> 02:04:27,280
so you know turnabout's fair play you

3128
02:04:30,950 --> 02:04:29,280
know that that made me the the lesson to

3129
02:04:33,109 --> 02:04:30,960
be learned obviously from that is to be

3130
02:04:36,070 --> 02:04:33,119
very very careful choose your words

3131
02:04:38,229 --> 02:04:36,080
wisely uh think twice before you type or

3132
02:04:40,229 --> 02:04:38,239
hit enter

3133
02:04:41,350 --> 02:04:40,239
and of course it hasn't worked i've i've

3134
02:04:43,990 --> 02:04:41,360
gotten even

3135
02:04:46,390 --> 02:04:44,000
in way more trouble not necessarily from

3136
02:04:48,629 --> 02:04:46,400
women but but just in general since then

3137
02:04:52,229 --> 02:04:48,639
so uh i guess the lesson wasn't

3138
02:04:53,910 --> 02:04:52,239
effectively learned for me but

3139
02:04:55,830 --> 02:04:53,920
chris i admire the fact though that

3140
02:04:57,750 --> 02:04:55,840
you're you're willing to

3141
02:05:00,149 --> 02:04:57,760
kind of call out uh questionable

3142
02:05:02,950 --> 02:05:00,159
behavior and i think that's a good

3143
02:05:04,070 --> 02:05:02,960
trait i think that you know it we need

3144
02:05:05,510 --> 02:05:04,080
to also

3145
02:05:06,870 --> 02:05:05,520
we need to do that i think instead of

3146
02:05:09,510 --> 02:05:06,880
just turning a blind eye to some of

3147
02:05:11,030 --> 02:05:09,520
these issues that are are happening you

3148
02:05:12,470 --> 02:05:11,040
know like i said and i've said this a

3149
02:05:15,189 --> 02:05:12,480
million times on my radio show every

3150
02:05:17,910 --> 02:05:15,199
week we need to address them and i can't

3151
02:05:20,870 --> 02:05:17,920
tell you that the emails that i get or

3152
02:05:22,470 --> 02:05:20,880
the facebook messages from people women

3153
02:05:24,870 --> 02:05:22,480
that have been through similar

3154
02:05:25,910 --> 02:05:24,880
circumstances in the field and are

3155
02:05:27,990 --> 02:05:25,920
they just

3156
02:05:30,229 --> 02:05:28,000
want somebody to share their experiences

3157
02:05:32,390 --> 02:05:30,239
with and they want to move forward in a

3158
02:05:34,390 --> 02:05:32,400
positive direction but they've they've

3159
02:05:37,109 --> 02:05:34,400
reached out for help and have not

3160
02:05:37,910 --> 02:05:37,119
necessarily gotten that and so i hope

3161
02:05:39,030 --> 02:05:37,920
that

3162
02:05:43,430 --> 02:05:39,040
we can

3163
02:05:46,310 --> 02:05:43,440
make better decisions about who we

3164
02:05:49,830 --> 02:05:46,320
associate with and how they treat people

3165
02:05:51,910 --> 02:05:49,840
and we can have some strategies for

3166
02:05:54,629 --> 02:05:51,920
dealing with all of this in a positive

3167
02:05:56,310 --> 02:05:54,639
and productive way that instills a sense

3168
02:05:59,189 --> 02:05:56,320
of empowerment to people that we're

3169
02:06:00,950 --> 02:05:59,199
working with right yeah that's i i i

3170
02:06:02,629 --> 02:06:00,960
couldn't have said it better myself i

3171
02:06:06,709 --> 02:06:02,639
think a lot of it has to do with the

3172
02:06:08,950 --> 02:06:06,719
individual interaction between people uh

3173
02:06:10,950 --> 02:06:08,960
you know obviously you're not gonna

3174
02:06:13,990 --> 02:06:10,960
you know inspire everybody that you

3175
02:06:15,669 --> 02:06:14,000
encounter in fact you may uh you know

3176
02:06:17,750 --> 02:06:15,679
piss some people off or get them angry

3177
02:06:19,990 --> 02:06:17,760
at you i i'm looking at it from my

3178
02:06:22,390 --> 02:06:20,000
perspective of course i am very abrasive

3179
02:06:25,189 --> 02:06:22,400
i i tend not to be as diplomatic in

3180
02:06:27,669 --> 02:06:25,199
situations as i probably should be so i

3181
02:06:30,069 --> 02:06:27,679
tend to be more of a kind of a lightning

3182
02:06:31,189 --> 02:06:30,079
rod for for this sort of thing so i may

3183
02:06:34,390 --> 02:06:31,199
be

3184
02:06:35,510 --> 02:06:34,400
in a position where i can't comment for

3185
02:06:37,510 --> 02:06:35,520
you know the

3186
02:06:40,069 --> 02:06:37,520
the subculture uh

3187
02:06:41,510 --> 02:06:40,079
at large uh because i

3188
02:06:44,149 --> 02:06:41,520
you know i'm kind of my own little sort

3189
02:06:45,109 --> 02:06:44,159
of animal running around a muck

3190
02:06:46,870 --> 02:06:45,119
but

3191
02:06:48,390 --> 02:06:46,880
i think in general yeah i think it's

3192
02:06:50,790 --> 02:06:48,400
important

3193
02:06:53,189 --> 02:06:50,800
i've always said that we should select

3194
02:06:54,709 --> 02:06:53,199
our inspiration

3195
02:06:57,109 --> 02:06:54,719
our sources

3196
02:06:59,189 --> 02:06:57,119
and the things that really

3197
02:07:00,470 --> 02:06:59,199
educate us i think we should be very

3198
02:07:02,069 --> 02:07:00,480
very selective

3199
02:07:04,470 --> 02:07:02,079
in in who

3200
02:07:07,510 --> 02:07:04,480
we tend to be influenced by uh i think

3201
02:07:09,910 --> 02:07:07,520
that's the bottom line and i think

3202
02:07:11,030 --> 02:07:09,920
generally we we always have to keep in

3203
02:07:12,629 --> 02:07:11,040
mind

3204
02:07:15,109 --> 02:07:12,639
you know we've got to keep our eye on

3205
02:07:17,350 --> 02:07:15,119
the on the goal here and uh and keep

3206
02:07:19,430 --> 02:07:17,360
totin toting the rock down the field

3207
02:07:23,109 --> 02:07:19,440
we're attempting to

3208
02:07:25,669 --> 02:07:23,119
ascertain clarity answers uh the truth

3209
02:07:27,750 --> 02:07:25,679
uh these are very very important um

3210
02:07:30,390 --> 02:07:27,760
underpinnings for everything that we do

3211
02:07:33,189 --> 02:07:30,400
and we always have to keep all this kind

3212
02:07:34,870 --> 02:07:33,199
of front and center even in dealing with

3213
02:07:36,870 --> 02:07:34,880
interpersonal relationships with people

3214
02:07:38,870 --> 02:07:36,880
that may not not agree uh with us

3215
02:07:41,589 --> 02:07:38,880
wholeheartedly i you know it's important

3216
02:07:43,990 --> 02:07:41,599
to always keep that we're all really on

3217
02:07:46,229 --> 02:07:44,000
the same team hopefully you know going

3218
02:07:48,229 --> 02:07:46,239
after the same goals and pulling the

3219
02:07:49,030 --> 02:07:48,239
oars in the in the same direction i mean

3220
02:07:50,790 --> 02:07:49,040
that

3221
02:07:53,350 --> 02:07:50,800
you know and oftentimes when i find

3222
02:07:55,270 --> 02:07:53,360
myself uh in a in a place that feels

3223
02:07:58,550 --> 02:07:55,280
like it's going into some sort of

3224
02:07:59,589 --> 02:07:58,560
conflict or confrontation i always bring

3225
02:08:00,390 --> 02:07:59,599
that

3226
02:08:01,910 --> 02:08:00,400
uh

3227
02:08:04,790 --> 02:08:01,920
that whole aspect to the to the

3228
02:08:06,629 --> 02:08:04,800
forefront hey we're on the same team

3229
02:08:08,229 --> 02:08:06,639
we want the same thing

3230
02:08:10,629 --> 02:08:08,239
we're attempting to do this in our own

3231
02:08:12,470 --> 02:08:10,639
individual ways but but we have a you

3232
02:08:14,470 --> 02:08:12,480
know a unified collective goal in mind

3233
02:08:16,229 --> 02:08:14,480
here let's you know not

3234
02:08:18,709 --> 02:08:16,239
lose sight of that and that tends to

3235
02:08:19,910 --> 02:08:18,719
actually be a very effective way to

3236
02:08:23,189 --> 02:08:19,920
to uh

3237
02:08:25,589 --> 02:08:23,199
as a steam valve tension or or to help

3238
02:08:27,189 --> 02:08:25,599
uh sort of ratchet down the uh

3239
02:08:29,109 --> 02:08:27,199
uh the rhetoric and that sort of thing

3240
02:08:32,790 --> 02:08:29,119
so that that has that professional

3241
02:08:34,790 --> 02:08:32,800
response it's professional and mature

3242
02:08:37,030 --> 02:08:34,800
basically it's it's absolutely

3243
02:08:38,790 --> 02:08:37,040
professional standards

3244
02:08:40,550 --> 02:08:38,800
well when in doubt always uh whip out

3245
02:08:41,589 --> 02:08:40,560
you know the bottom line and then the

3246
02:08:44,709 --> 02:08:41,599
core

3247
02:08:46,390 --> 02:08:44,719
of of what motivates us to even be

3248
02:08:48,149 --> 02:08:46,400
you know involved in this there's a lot

3249
02:08:50,229 --> 02:08:48,159
of closet people that are involved but

3250
02:08:51,589 --> 02:08:50,239
it's it's another thing to actually you

3251
02:08:54,550 --> 02:08:51,599
know put your name out there write

3252
02:08:57,030 --> 02:08:54,560
articles do radio uh appear

3253
02:08:58,550 --> 02:08:57,040
uh at conferences to dovetail your your

3254
02:09:00,629 --> 02:08:58,560
efforts with other investigators and

3255
02:09:02,069 --> 02:09:00,639
researchers around the world that's

3256
02:09:04,310 --> 02:09:02,079
that's a big step from just being

3257
02:09:05,589 --> 02:09:04,320
someone that's you know kind of really

3258
02:09:07,350 --> 02:09:05,599
really passionately interested in the

3259
02:09:08,709 --> 02:09:07,360
subject but doesn't have the balls or

3260
02:09:10,709 --> 02:09:08,719
the cajones

3261
02:09:12,149 --> 02:09:10,719
again using male

3262
02:09:13,750 --> 02:09:12,159
male

3263
02:09:19,350 --> 02:09:13,760
terminology

3264
02:09:21,109 --> 02:09:19,360
that well

3265
02:09:23,910 --> 02:09:21,119
there's and we like it that way you

3266
02:09:26,709 --> 02:09:23,920
cannot use that we like it that way you

3267
02:09:27,669 --> 02:09:26,719
see that i'm watching chris dig a deep

3268
02:09:29,750 --> 02:09:27,679
hole

3269
02:09:32,550 --> 02:09:29,760
yeah it is kind of entertaining right

3270
02:09:35,350 --> 02:09:32,560
now actually well no i use i use those

3271
02:09:37,750 --> 02:09:35,360
analogies very specifically because it

3272
02:09:39,830 --> 02:09:37,760
shows you the kind of gender uh slant

3273
02:09:41,109 --> 02:09:39,840
that we have in our culture

3274
02:09:44,229 --> 02:09:41,119
and uh

3275
02:09:45,990 --> 02:09:44,239
uh you know it it takes a lot of courage

3276
02:09:49,030 --> 02:09:46,000
to take that next step from being a

3277
02:09:50,790 --> 02:09:49,040
closet buff someone who may have an

3278
02:09:53,430 --> 02:09:50,800
infinite amount of knowledge more than

3279
02:09:55,910 --> 02:09:53,440
some experts even and take that step and

3280
02:09:58,310 --> 02:09:55,920
then and put yourself out in the public

3281
02:10:01,109 --> 02:09:58,320
eye and uh open yourself up for god

3282
02:10:02,790 --> 02:10:01,119
knows what kinds of of

3283
02:10:06,069 --> 02:10:02,800
responses that you have from out there

3284
02:10:07,910 --> 02:10:06,079
especially now with social media i mean

3285
02:10:08,870 --> 02:10:07,920
i'm just horrified

3286
02:10:10,870 --> 02:10:08,880
it's

3287
02:10:13,030 --> 02:10:10,880
some of the things that i see out there

3288
02:10:14,790 --> 02:10:13,040
it's like whoa and that person isn't

3289
02:10:16,550 --> 02:10:14,800
even using an avatar they're saying it

3290
02:10:21,189 --> 02:10:16,560
you know with their real name it's like

3291
02:10:24,950 --> 02:10:23,589
we got more to come two more segments

3292
02:10:28,229 --> 02:10:24,960
with chase

3293
02:10:36,950 --> 02:10:28,239
kathleen and erica and jean and chris

3294
02:10:36,960 --> 02:10:41,669
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and if you decide you like it and want

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to connect with people use the code

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3382
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george if you decide to connect with

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[Music]

3391
02:14:56,390 --> 02:14:54,790
this is micah hanks of the grayling

3392
02:14:58,709 --> 02:14:56,400
report and you're listening to the

3393
02:15:07,669 --> 02:14:58,719
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

3394
02:15:11,589 --> 02:15:09,589
chris are there any questions there for

3395
02:15:13,750 --> 02:15:11,599
remaining two segments that might be

3396
02:15:15,750 --> 02:15:13,760
relevant to anybody's

3397
02:15:18,069 --> 02:15:15,760
research or anything like that we have

3398
02:15:19,030 --> 02:15:18,079
uh quite a number of questions uh again

3399
02:15:21,990 --> 02:15:19,040
i don't think that they're really

3400
02:15:24,950 --> 02:15:22,000
dealing with with the nuts and bolts

3401
02:15:26,790 --> 02:15:24,960
aspect of our our you know forum but our

3402
02:15:30,109 --> 02:15:26,800
round table but this one comes from

3403
02:15:32,069 --> 02:15:30,119
jimmy who's been a long time poster at

3404
02:15:33,750 --> 02:15:32,079
forum.theparacast.com where our

3405
02:15:36,629 --> 02:15:33,760
listeners get a chance to

3406
02:15:38,950 --> 02:15:36,639
uh post questions for our guests um he's

3407
02:15:40,470 --> 02:15:38,960
been a poster here for almost

3408
02:15:41,910 --> 02:15:40,480
four years he doesn't come out of the

3409
02:15:46,069 --> 02:15:41,920
woodwork very often but this one brought

3410
02:15:49,350 --> 02:15:46,079
him out so uh here we go ladies

3411
02:15:51,589 --> 02:15:49,360
what's your opinion on who

3412
02:15:55,189 --> 02:15:51,599
is behind the abduction phenomenon and

3413
02:15:57,510 --> 02:15:55,199
what it is its purpose

3414
02:15:59,510 --> 02:15:57,520
and then it goes into a

3415
02:16:01,109 --> 02:15:59,520
an opinion that you might have on david

3416
02:16:03,030 --> 02:16:01,119
jacobs

3417
02:16:05,030 --> 02:16:03,040
etc many thanks

3418
02:16:05,830 --> 02:16:05,040
who wants to tackle that kathleen since

3419
02:16:07,750 --> 02:16:05,840
you're

3420
02:16:09,910 --> 02:16:07,760
yeah

3421
02:16:13,189 --> 02:16:09,920
i would like very much to tackle that

3422
02:16:16,229 --> 02:16:13,199
question okay i don't think that you can

3423
02:16:19,270 --> 02:16:16,239
state uh one who

3424
02:16:21,669 --> 02:16:19,280
is behind this there there are many many

3425
02:16:25,030 --> 02:16:21,679
things going on here it's much more

3426
02:16:26,629 --> 02:16:25,040
complex than most people have ever

3427
02:16:29,870 --> 02:16:26,639
imagined

3428
02:16:31,510 --> 02:16:29,880
we have everything going on from

3429
02:16:33,509 --> 02:16:31,520
inter-dimensional

3430
02:16:37,509 --> 02:16:33,519
beings who

3431
02:16:40,629 --> 02:16:37,519
might be like the the celtic brownies uh

3432
02:16:43,509 --> 02:16:40,639
who can who are tricksters who can take

3433
02:16:47,270 --> 02:16:43,519
a variety of different forms their shape

3434
02:16:49,190 --> 02:16:47,280
shifters they they might be negative

3435
02:16:52,790 --> 02:16:49,200
all the way to

3436
02:16:57,030 --> 02:16:52,800
uh what appear to be astronauts coming

3437
02:16:59,349 --> 02:16:57,040
here from another solar system and so

3438
02:17:00,950 --> 02:16:59,359
uh it's a variety of things there are

3439
02:17:02,950 --> 02:17:00,960
some positive

3440
02:17:06,790 --> 02:17:02,960
there are some negative

3441
02:17:09,830 --> 02:17:06,800
most experiencers who have taken part in

3442
02:17:10,549 --> 02:17:09,840
a number of studies will state that it

3443
02:17:13,990 --> 02:17:10,559
is

3444
02:17:16,790 --> 02:17:14,000
both positive and negative

3445
02:17:19,349 --> 02:17:16,800
there are more who believe that it is

3446
02:17:23,110 --> 02:17:19,359
positive than negative

3447
02:17:27,030 --> 02:17:23,120
on mufon's recent study they there were

3448
02:17:29,429 --> 02:17:27,040
10 percent who felt that it was evil so

3449
02:17:31,589 --> 02:17:29,439
there is a small percentage who believe

3450
02:17:33,190 --> 02:17:31,599
that they are dealing with an evil force

3451
02:17:35,750 --> 02:17:33,200
and they may be

3452
02:17:38,389 --> 02:17:35,760
this may be the same kind of thing that

3453
02:17:40,709 --> 02:17:38,399
you read about in the bible

3454
02:17:42,870 --> 02:17:40,719
the bible calls it demons

3455
02:17:45,349 --> 02:17:42,880
other people would call it

3456
02:17:48,389 --> 02:17:45,359
negative parasitic entities from the

3457
02:17:50,790 --> 02:17:48,399
astral realm for example which are

3458
02:17:51,910 --> 02:17:50,800
different and it appears

3459
02:17:53,990 --> 02:17:51,920
that

3460
02:17:56,549 --> 02:17:54,000
many of our visitors

3461
02:17:59,750 --> 02:17:56,559
possess technology

3462
02:18:03,110 --> 02:17:59,760
that allows them to travel

3463
02:18:05,429 --> 02:18:03,120
interdimensionally and this would be the

3464
02:18:08,389 --> 02:18:05,439
reason that they're able to pass through

3465
02:18:10,790 --> 02:18:08,399
solid surfaces to enter into

3466
02:18:13,750 --> 02:18:10,800
experiencer's homes

3467
02:18:17,349 --> 02:18:13,760
so it's very complex it's very

3468
02:18:19,669 --> 02:18:17,359
complicated and there are a variety of

3469
02:18:23,349 --> 02:18:19,679
different things going on

3470
02:18:24,950 --> 02:18:23,359
no one size fits all answers

3471
02:18:26,549 --> 02:18:24,960
that's right

3472
02:18:30,950 --> 02:18:26,559
uh chase what do you think

3473
02:18:32,950 --> 02:18:30,960
i actually agree 100 with kathleen and

3474
02:18:35,030 --> 02:18:32,960
this is exactly what we're finding out

3475
02:18:36,830 --> 02:18:35,040
is that you know the

3476
02:18:39,270 --> 02:18:36,840
people that are coming forward the

3477
02:18:40,389 --> 02:18:39,280
experiencers don't tell the exact same

3478
02:18:43,910 --> 02:18:40,399
story

3479
02:18:46,150 --> 02:18:43,920
and there's many different experiences

3480
02:18:47,750 --> 02:18:46,160
and very grateful that you can go on the

3481
02:18:51,349 --> 02:18:47,760
mufon website and fill out a

3482
02:18:54,389 --> 02:18:51,359
questionnaire from denise and kathleen

3483
02:18:55,270 --> 02:18:54,399
who have spent so much time working on

3484
02:18:58,309 --> 02:18:55,280
this

3485
02:19:00,709 --> 02:18:58,319
whole phenomena and now that we're

3486
02:19:03,589 --> 02:19:00,719
actually dealing in and getting

3487
02:19:05,830 --> 02:19:03,599
statistics and gaining information from

3488
02:19:06,870 --> 02:19:05,840
these surveys we're going so much

3489
02:19:08,790 --> 02:19:06,880
further

3490
02:19:11,509 --> 02:19:08,800
and i couldn't help but be proud when i

3491
02:19:13,270 --> 02:19:11,519
heard kathleen you know using

3492
02:19:16,709 --> 02:19:13,280
terminology that was absolutely

3493
02:19:18,950 --> 02:19:16,719
forbidden in ufology 10 years ago 15

3494
02:19:22,150 --> 02:19:18,960
years ago and that's how much we've

3495
02:19:24,790 --> 02:19:22,160
grown and it's by no mistake

3496
02:19:26,750 --> 02:19:24,800
from you know just absolutely

3497
02:19:29,669 --> 02:19:26,760
tenaciously getting in there and

3498
02:19:32,309 --> 02:19:29,679
understanding what we're investigating

3499
02:19:36,230 --> 02:19:32,319
and let me say that alan heineck and

3500
02:19:39,830 --> 02:19:36,240
jacques valet were aware of all of this

3501
02:19:43,750 --> 02:19:39,840
yes dr berthold schwartz uh made the

3502
02:19:47,429 --> 02:19:43,760
statement that ufology tended to be nuts

3503
02:19:51,270 --> 02:19:47,439
and bolts oriented but unless

3504
02:19:53,429 --> 02:19:51,280
ufology would look at this the psychic

3505
02:19:57,190 --> 02:19:53,439
phenomena this high strangeness

3506
02:19:58,950 --> 02:19:57,200
phenomena we will never have the answers

3507
02:20:00,790 --> 02:19:58,960
to our questions

3508
02:20:03,190 --> 02:20:00,800
it's kind of nice to see people like

3509
02:20:04,630 --> 02:20:03,200
jacques villa come back into the field

3510
02:20:06,950 --> 02:20:04,640
now that um

3511
02:20:09,030 --> 02:20:06,960
you know we've come full circle with

3512
02:20:10,150 --> 02:20:09,040
some of his opinions and some of his

3513
02:20:11,910 --> 02:20:10,160
conclusions

3514
02:20:13,190 --> 02:20:11,920
he was ahead of his time

3515
02:20:14,790 --> 02:20:13,200
sure

3516
02:20:16,630 --> 02:20:14,800
yeah but he's he's going to be jumping

3517
02:20:19,510 --> 02:20:16,640
right into the uh

3518
02:20:21,429 --> 02:20:19,520
into the uh

3519
02:20:24,309 --> 02:20:21,439
uh how about i put this the frying pan

3520
02:20:27,349 --> 02:20:24,319
the furnace and the nuclear reactor when

3521
02:20:28,630 --> 02:20:27,359
he speaks at this upcoming contact in

3522
02:20:29,670 --> 02:20:28,640
the desert

3523
02:20:31,750 --> 02:20:29,680
which

3524
02:20:35,510 --> 02:20:31,760
when i saw that i thought that i had

3525
02:20:40,710 --> 02:20:38,550
i i really i it blows my mind that that

3526
02:20:41,830 --> 02:20:40,720
particular that particular podium was

3527
02:20:44,469 --> 02:20:41,840
going to have

3528
02:20:47,429 --> 02:20:44,479
uh jacques valet on it after it's had

3529
02:20:48,230 --> 02:20:47,439
some of the most outrageous and uh and

3530
02:20:51,429 --> 02:20:48,240
just

3531
02:20:54,070 --> 02:20:51,439
over the top bad sci-fi presenters

3532
02:20:56,550 --> 02:20:54,080
uh that anyone uh could imagine and if

3533
02:20:57,910 --> 02:20:56,560
you'd like i will start rattling off

3534
02:20:59,349 --> 02:20:57,920
names

3535
02:21:00,230 --> 02:20:59,359
i'd rather not

3536
02:21:01,990 --> 02:21:00,240
but

3537
02:21:04,469 --> 02:21:02,000
it just kind of made it does it doesn't

3538
02:21:08,230 --> 02:21:04,479
make you wonder whether

3539
02:21:13,190 --> 02:21:10,870
you know it's my impression that he is

3540
02:21:15,030 --> 02:21:13,200
of the mindset and i think that people

3541
02:21:16,870 --> 02:21:15,040
that have worked around him as well that

3542
02:21:18,389 --> 02:21:16,880
there's something that

3543
02:21:20,469 --> 02:21:18,399
needs to be

3544
02:21:22,309 --> 02:21:20,479
really taken seriously now especially

3545
02:21:24,710 --> 02:21:22,319
more than ever and i think that's where

3546
02:21:25,670 --> 02:21:24,720
kathleen and her work and the work of

3547
02:21:27,750 --> 02:21:25,680
free

3548
02:21:29,190 --> 02:21:27,760
and different organizations and

3549
02:21:31,110 --> 02:21:29,200
researchers

3550
02:21:33,110 --> 02:21:31,120
we need to really embrace this and we

3551
02:21:35,990 --> 02:21:33,120
need to instead of just sitting behind a

3552
02:21:37,590 --> 02:21:36,000
computer and looking at a single case

3553
02:21:39,510 --> 02:21:37,600
and then putting it away we need to

3554
02:21:41,590 --> 02:21:39,520
analyze the data we need to do field

3555
02:21:43,990 --> 02:21:41,600
research studies we need to look at

3556
02:21:45,990 --> 02:21:44,000
experiencers and all that they have been

3557
02:21:47,990 --> 02:21:46,000
through and we need to delve a little

3558
02:21:50,950 --> 02:21:48,000
bit deeper and perhaps steer things off

3559
02:21:52,550 --> 02:21:50,960
into a different direction and include

3560
02:21:54,870 --> 02:21:52,560
what we would call the paranormal

3561
02:21:57,270 --> 02:21:54,880
because it in all likelihood is probably

3562
02:22:02,790 --> 02:21:57,280
all one in the same or many different

3563
02:22:07,510 --> 02:22:05,270
well thank you

3564
02:22:09,670 --> 02:22:07,520
oh man i sound like i've been listening

3565
02:22:11,910 --> 02:22:09,680
to myself for 30 years with that comment

3566
02:22:15,110 --> 02:22:11,920
i i totally agree and uh your comment

3567
02:22:18,070 --> 02:22:15,120
about kathleen uh using terminology and

3568
02:22:20,550 --> 02:22:18,080
uh what ifing about uh you know possibly

3569
02:22:22,550 --> 02:22:20,560
other dimensionals which ties into valet

3570
02:22:25,510 --> 02:22:22,560
whatever it is whether it's the gin

3571
02:22:26,950 --> 02:22:25,520
rosemary guy ellen guyley is touting the

3572
02:22:27,990 --> 02:22:26,960
possibility that maybe we're dealing

3573
02:22:30,790 --> 02:22:28,000
with uh

3574
02:22:32,950 --> 02:22:30,800
another culture's version of paranormal

3575
02:22:35,110 --> 02:22:32,960
entities i think i think it's totally

3576
02:22:37,349 --> 02:22:35,120
wide open and uh chase i think your

3577
02:22:39,510 --> 02:22:37,359
comments are well taken as well that

3578
02:22:41,590 --> 02:22:39,520
we're we're it's a brave new world and

3579
02:22:44,150 --> 02:22:41,600
it seems like every so often the field

3580
02:22:46,230 --> 02:22:44,160
goes through this sort of re-evaluation

3581
02:22:49,830 --> 02:22:46,240
of itself and then new

3582
02:22:52,710 --> 02:22:49,840
terminology new approaches new thinking

3583
02:22:54,070 --> 02:22:52,720
slowly is like in a grudgingly sort of

3584
02:22:54,950 --> 02:22:54,080
way is is

3585
02:22:57,429 --> 02:22:54,960
kind of

3586
02:22:58,389 --> 02:22:57,439
allowed to enter the lexicon and

3587
02:22:59,910 --> 02:22:58,399
and uh

3588
02:23:02,309 --> 02:22:59,920
man if i have something to do with that

3589
02:23:03,910 --> 02:23:02,319
i i will really be happy because man

3590
02:23:06,230 --> 02:23:03,920
i'll tell you i've been i've been

3591
02:23:09,190 --> 02:23:06,240
pumping this one for ever since i got

3592
02:23:11,030 --> 02:23:09,200
involved within two weeks of my first

3593
02:23:13,110 --> 02:23:11,040
you know investigation

3594
02:23:14,870 --> 02:23:13,120
um i realized that aliens from another

3595
02:23:17,830 --> 02:23:14,880
planet was

3596
02:23:20,309 --> 02:23:17,840
woefully inadequate

3597
02:23:22,550 --> 02:23:20,319
so well here's a question for for you

3598
02:23:25,510 --> 02:23:22,560
all um

3599
02:23:27,830 --> 02:23:25,520
where do you draw the line of cajulity

3600
02:23:29,990 --> 02:23:27,840
now we have individuals saying that uh

3601
02:23:32,070 --> 02:23:30,000
they've been on mars as a

3602
02:23:33,190 --> 02:23:32,080
an officer for the government u.s

3603
02:23:36,309 --> 02:23:33,200
government or

3604
02:23:39,270 --> 02:23:36,319
dark state or whatever for 20 years

3605
02:23:41,270 --> 02:23:39,280
um you have people claiming that uh

3606
02:23:44,309 --> 02:23:41,280
they've discovered the god particle the

3607
02:23:46,870 --> 02:23:44,319
ganesh particle at area 51 you have

3608
02:23:49,349 --> 02:23:46,880
people that said that they uh were time

3609
02:23:51,990 --> 02:23:49,359
travelers at six years old back to the

3610
02:23:54,870 --> 02:23:52,000
gettysburg address you have people that

3611
02:23:58,309 --> 02:23:54,880
are stating that uh um

3612
02:24:01,349 --> 02:23:58,319
they were trained uh for their martian

3613
02:24:04,469 --> 02:24:01,359
uh excursion by ed dames and barry

3614
02:24:06,790 --> 02:24:04,479
satoru or barack obama and uh uh some

3615
02:24:08,790 --> 02:24:06,800
other time traveler uh were part of the

3616
02:24:10,710 --> 02:24:08,800
class where do you draw the line of

3617
02:24:13,270 --> 02:24:10,720
credulity and where do you think the

3618
02:24:15,510 --> 02:24:13,280
field should draw the line let's pause

3619
02:24:18,230 --> 02:24:15,520
before we have the answers

3620
02:24:19,590 --> 02:24:18,240
the pause that refreshes or we take a

3621
02:24:20,950 --> 02:24:19,600
refreshment

3622
02:24:23,110 --> 02:24:20,960
while we pause

3623
02:24:24,790 --> 02:24:23,120
i don't know which one erica luke's

3624
02:24:27,590 --> 02:24:24,800
chase klosky

3625
02:24:29,190 --> 02:24:27,600
kathleen martin gene steinberg chris

3626
02:24:33,380 --> 02:24:29,200
o'brien you're in

3627
02:24:33,390 --> 02:24:37,590
[Music]

3628
02:24:41,710 --> 02:24:40,870
thank you for listening to gcn

3629
02:24:46,150 --> 02:24:41,720
visit

3630
02:24:51,750 --> 02:24:48,469
we also have swag you know we have all

3631
02:24:54,389 --> 02:24:51,760
these exclusive power cast things that

3632
02:24:57,670 --> 02:24:54,399
you can buy we've got like i guess 60 or

3633
02:25:01,190 --> 02:24:57,680
so different items and entails t-shirts

3634
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3635
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3636
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3637
02:25:11,910 --> 02:25:08,479
jackets and stuff like that for men and

3638
02:25:13,670 --> 02:25:11,920
women we have a powercast aluminum water

3639
02:25:17,150 --> 02:25:13,680
bottle all this stuff you go to

3640
02:25:21,670 --> 02:25:19,030
store.thepowercast.com what makes it

3641
02:25:24,550 --> 02:25:21,680
special is that the items are the best

3642
02:25:26,309 --> 02:25:24,560
quality or great t-shirts fabrics and

3643
02:25:27,510 --> 02:25:26,319
they have our official logo on them

3644
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3645
02:25:33,190 --> 02:25:30,720
multiple sizes and colors we even have

3646
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stuff for children stuff for women stuff

3647
02:25:37,830 --> 02:25:35,680
for men we have all sorts of sizes like

3648
02:25:40,469 --> 02:25:37,840
small up to x x-large a lot of good

3649
02:25:42,030 --> 02:25:40,479
stuff that's the swag from the powercast

3650
02:25:44,630 --> 02:25:42,040
you go to

3651
02:25:47,110 --> 02:25:44,640
store.thepowercast.com stop by and take

3652
02:25:48,630 --> 02:25:47,120
a shopping tour in these uncertain times

3653
02:25:50,309 --> 02:25:48,640
it makes sense to have a sustainable

3654
02:25:52,070 --> 02:25:50,319
backup method to cook food and boil

3655
02:25:53,990 --> 02:25:52,080
water if your current plan includes

3656
02:25:55,910 --> 02:25:54,000
using a fuel burning stove or cooking

3657
02:25:57,990 --> 02:25:55,920
over an open fire then there's a much

3658
02:25:59,990 --> 02:25:58,000
better way the minuteman rocket stove is

3659
02:26:02,070 --> 02:26:00,000
a biomass burning cooking stove that

3660
02:26:04,070 --> 02:26:02,080
only requires small quantities of sticks

3661
02:26:05,830 --> 02:26:04,080
and twigs for fuel the minuteman stove

3662
02:26:07,830 --> 02:26:05,840
is easy to use smokeless portable

3663
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powerful and sustainable for the finest

3664
02:26:11,830 --> 02:26:09,760
and survival cooking stoves and fire

3665
02:26:13,670 --> 02:26:11,840
starters made right here in the usa go

3666
02:26:15,750 --> 02:26:13,680
to minutemanstove.com that's

3667
02:26:17,190 --> 02:26:15,760
minutemanstove.com

3668
02:26:19,030 --> 02:26:17,200
did you know there's a new group of

3669
02:26:21,190 --> 02:26:19,040
water contaminants with unknown health

3670
02:26:22,790 --> 02:26:21,200
effects these emerging contaminants

3671
02:26:24,630 --> 02:26:22,800
lurking in your water may include

3672
02:26:27,270 --> 02:26:24,640
prescription over-the-counter drugs and

3673
02:26:30,830 --> 02:26:27,280
new types of herbicides and pesticides

3674
02:26:33,510 --> 02:26:30,840
propures improve pro-1g 2.0 filter meets

3675
02:26:35,910 --> 02:26:33,520
nsf-401 standards to help reduce these

3676
02:26:38,389 --> 02:26:35,920
emerging contaminants to find out more

3677
02:26:40,389 --> 02:26:38,399
visit your authorized pro-pure dealer or

3678
02:26:48,309 --> 02:26:40,399
propureusa.com

3679
02:26:51,750 --> 02:26:49,830
this is dan pillett do you have the irs

3680
02:26:53,590 --> 02:26:51,760
money you can't pay are tax debts

3681
02:26:55,910 --> 02:26:53,600
crippling you i've defended people from

3682
02:26:57,990 --> 02:26:55,920
the irs for over 30 years i've helped

3683
02:26:59,429 --> 02:26:58,000
thousands and i can help you too i wrote

3684
02:27:01,110 --> 02:26:59,439
the book on irs settlement and i'm

3685
02:27:04,790 --> 02:27:01,120
telling you there's no such thing as a

3686
02:27:07,030 --> 02:27:04,800
hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

3687
02:27:08,550 --> 02:27:07,040
get free of irs debt with the irs's new

3688
02:27:11,429 --> 02:27:08,560
programs there's never been a better

3689
02:27:15,270 --> 02:27:11,439
time to solve your problem call 834 no

3690
02:27:17,349 --> 02:27:15,280
tax that's 800 34 no tax on my website

3691
02:27:19,190 --> 02:27:17,359
danpilla.com

3692
02:27:20,870 --> 02:27:19,200
hi there i'm bob eubanks you know as

3693
02:27:22,790 --> 02:27:20,880
part of hollywood for a long time i've

3694
02:27:24,870 --> 02:27:22,800
seen my fair share of celebrities get in

3695
02:27:27,910 --> 02:27:24,880
trouble with the irs well there's one

3696
02:27:30,630 --> 02:27:27,920
name i trust the tax defense group

3697
02:27:32,230 --> 02:27:30,640
they're the most trusted name in tax so

3698
02:27:34,469 --> 02:27:32,240
if you owe more than ten thousand

3699
02:27:37,190 --> 02:27:34,479
dollars to the irs you really need to

3700
02:27:39,910 --> 02:27:37,200
call my friends at the tax defense group

3701
02:27:41,830 --> 02:27:39,920
ignoring the irs is not the solution

3702
02:27:43,670 --> 02:27:41,840
they can garnish your paycheck levy your

3703
02:27:44,389 --> 02:27:43,680
bank accounts seize your home or

3704
02:27:46,230 --> 02:27:44,399
business

3705
02:27:49,030 --> 02:27:46,240
but the tax defense group could put a

3706
02:27:51,030 --> 02:27:49,040
stop to all of that and tailor a program

3707
02:27:53,510 --> 02:27:51,040
that would reduce your tax debt to

3708
02:27:55,830 --> 02:27:53,520
pennies on the dollar you gotta love

3709
02:27:57,830 --> 02:27:55,840
that so don't just take my word for it

3710
02:28:01,190 --> 02:27:57,840
call them find out for yourself they

3711
02:28:03,750 --> 02:28:01,200
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3712
02:28:06,309 --> 02:28:03,760
they're open 24 hours a day because they

3713
02:28:08,150 --> 02:28:06,319
know that tax debt doesn't sleep either

3714
02:28:10,150 --> 02:28:08,160
call now for your free and confidential

3715
02:28:13,980 --> 02:28:10,160
tax analysis from the most trusted name

3716
02:28:17,990 --> 02:28:13,990
and tax call 800-361-6907-800-361-6907

3717
02:28:21,990 --> 02:28:19,830
many medicines used to treat colds and

3718
02:28:23,750 --> 02:28:22,000
flu contain acetaminophen a pain

3719
02:28:24,950 --> 02:28:23,760
reliever and fever reducer found in

3720
02:28:27,030 --> 02:28:24,960
hundreds of over-the-counter and

3721
02:28:28,550 --> 02:28:27,040
prescription medicines but taking too

3722
02:28:30,469 --> 02:28:28,560
much or more than one medication

3723
02:28:32,389 --> 02:28:30,479
containing acetaminophen per day can

3724
02:28:34,070 --> 02:28:32,399
damage your liver so always read the

3725
02:28:35,830 --> 02:28:34,080
label and don't take acetaminophen if

3726
02:28:39,030 --> 02:28:35,840
you drink three or more alcoholic drinks

3727
02:28:41,670 --> 02:28:39,040
every day to learn more visit fda.gov

3728
02:28:43,190 --> 02:28:41,680
otc pain info a message from the u.s

3729
02:28:45,150 --> 02:28:43,200
department of health and human services

3730
02:28:50,790 --> 02:28:45,160
food and drug administration

3731
02:28:55,830 --> 02:28:53,670
hi this is james fox from chasing ufos

3732
02:28:59,750 --> 02:28:55,840
you're listening to the paracast the

3733
02:29:04,550 --> 02:29:02,230
[Music]

3734
02:29:07,190 --> 02:29:04,560
so we had a long question from chris who

3735
02:29:10,070 --> 02:29:07,200
wants to step up with an answer where do

3736
02:29:12,630 --> 02:29:10,080
we draw our line of credulity

3737
02:29:14,550 --> 02:29:12,640
oh wow that's such a good question and

3738
02:29:16,389 --> 02:29:14,560
that's an important one i think it's

3739
02:29:18,630 --> 02:29:16,399
it's hard because we're researching

3740
02:29:21,030 --> 02:29:18,640
things that nobody is i mean we're

3741
02:29:23,349 --> 02:29:21,040
breaking ground and so

3742
02:29:25,590 --> 02:29:23,359
while we we always need to verify and

3743
02:29:27,990 --> 02:29:25,600
fact check and and reach out and do the

3744
02:29:29,830 --> 02:29:28,000
homework and and have a good idea of

3745
02:29:31,750 --> 02:29:29,840
where a person is coming from their

3746
02:29:34,710 --> 02:29:31,760
background uh

3747
02:29:37,670 --> 02:29:34,720
is there how can we validate their story

3748
02:29:39,990 --> 02:29:37,680
but then you do hear you know people

3749
02:29:42,150 --> 02:29:40,000
that worked at sri you do hear what they

3750
02:29:44,389 --> 02:29:42,160
did back in the 70s 80s i mean there's

3751
02:29:45,750 --> 02:29:44,399
so many things that we don't know

3752
02:29:49,990 --> 02:29:45,760
we just have to keep one foot on the

3753
02:29:52,230 --> 02:29:50,000
ground keep our our mind open to things

3754
02:29:53,910 --> 02:29:52,240
and who knows where that will lead but i

3755
02:29:56,150 --> 02:29:53,920
think it's important when you've got

3756
02:29:58,710 --> 02:29:56,160
people that have worked in this in

3757
02:30:00,309 --> 02:29:58,720
specific areas like kathleen and

3758
02:30:01,510 --> 02:30:00,319
different people like you chris who's

3759
02:30:03,990 --> 02:30:01,520
done a lot of stuff with the cattle

3760
02:30:07,910 --> 02:30:04,000
mutilations i mean it's we take all of

3761
02:30:10,230 --> 02:30:07,920
your input and really define the picture

3762
02:30:11,670 --> 02:30:10,240
and look at look at the data and i think

3763
02:30:14,870 --> 02:30:11,680
that's important

3764
02:30:15,670 --> 02:30:14,880
i think that this field has had a long

3765
02:30:16,630 --> 02:30:15,680
time

3766
02:30:19,429 --> 02:30:16,640
problem

3767
02:30:22,309 --> 02:30:19,439
with people who perpetrate hoaxes for

3768
02:30:24,630 --> 02:30:22,319
attention or for monetary gain or for

3769
02:30:26,950 --> 02:30:24,640
whatever ever it's for and nobody makes

3770
02:30:30,550 --> 02:30:26,960
a lot of money doing it but

3771
02:30:33,110 --> 02:30:30,560
i suppose they enjoy the attention i

3772
02:30:35,510 --> 02:30:33,120
would like to see a return

3773
02:30:37,590 --> 02:30:35,520
to the times when people were asked to

3774
02:30:39,590 --> 02:30:37,600
take lie detector tests

3775
02:30:43,910 --> 02:30:39,600
i would like to

3776
02:30:46,309 --> 02:30:43,920
see people who are trained in fbi

3777
02:30:47,830 --> 02:30:46,319
lie detector test

3778
02:30:51,429 --> 02:30:47,840
body language

3779
02:30:53,830 --> 02:30:51,439
evaluation of a person's statements to

3780
02:30:57,190 --> 02:30:53,840
determine whether or not they're using

3781
02:31:00,550 --> 02:30:57,200
truthful body language voice stress

3782
02:31:01,670 --> 02:31:00,560
analysis tests on these voices to find

3783
02:31:05,270 --> 02:31:01,680
out

3784
02:31:08,590 --> 02:31:05,280
if they really are telling the truth or

3785
02:31:10,230 --> 02:31:08,600
not some of these stories sound so very

3786
02:31:13,349 --> 02:31:10,240
preposterous

3787
02:31:16,389 --> 02:31:13,359
that it's hard to know but you can't

3788
02:31:18,710 --> 02:31:16,399
come out against someone unless you have

3789
02:31:21,510 --> 02:31:18,720
evidence that their statement

3790
02:31:23,590 --> 02:31:21,520
is false so you have to just have a very

3791
02:31:25,190 --> 02:31:23,600
large gray basket

3792
02:31:28,070 --> 02:31:25,200
and wait for

3793
02:31:29,270 --> 02:31:28,080
someone who has the funding to step

3794
02:31:32,230 --> 02:31:29,280
forward

3795
02:31:34,150 --> 02:31:32,240
to do these types of tests

3796
02:31:36,309 --> 02:31:34,160
i like that and and take it one step

3797
02:31:39,270 --> 02:31:36,319
further it'd be nice to have some sort

3798
02:31:41,510 --> 02:31:39,280
of august uh body of

3799
02:31:43,429 --> 02:31:41,520
respected individuals

3800
02:31:44,309 --> 02:31:43,439
that maybe would

3801
02:31:46,150 --> 02:31:44,319
pass

3802
02:31:49,510 --> 02:31:46,160
you know some sort of

3803
02:31:52,389 --> 02:31:49,520
have some sort of process to certify

3804
02:31:55,510 --> 02:31:52,399
to at least the best of our abilities

3805
02:31:58,389 --> 02:31:55,520
the authenticity of particular claims

3806
02:32:00,950 --> 02:31:58,399
um i think the ufo hall of shame was a

3807
02:32:03,830 --> 02:32:00,960
very rough kind of gross

3808
02:32:05,830 --> 02:32:03,840
un standardized undifferentiated way to

3809
02:32:08,309 --> 02:32:05,840
do that but i really do think that we

3810
02:32:10,389 --> 02:32:08,319
need a way to

3811
02:32:11,910 --> 02:32:10,399
you know it's so many people

3812
02:32:14,309 --> 02:32:11,920
interested in this field for the first

3813
02:32:15,349 --> 02:32:14,319
time kids especially they go on to the

3814
02:32:17,910 --> 02:32:15,359
internet

3815
02:32:20,950 --> 02:32:17,920
and they hear all these outlandish

3816
02:32:22,790 --> 02:32:20,960
claims they see all these hoaxed videos

3817
02:32:25,030 --> 02:32:22,800
and because they don't really know

3818
02:32:27,590 --> 02:32:25,040
anything about what they're interested

3819
02:32:29,670 --> 02:32:27,600
in here with this subject matter

3820
02:32:31,349 --> 02:32:29,680
they buy into anything that conforms to

3821
02:32:33,349 --> 02:32:31,359
some sort of weird

3822
02:32:35,429 --> 02:32:33,359
aspect of their belief system and and

3823
02:32:38,070 --> 02:32:35,439
people tend to look for a validation of

3824
02:32:39,990 --> 02:32:38,080
what they feel you know is going on but

3825
02:32:42,630 --> 02:32:40,000
wouldn't it be nice if we had a way to

3826
02:32:45,510 --> 02:32:42,640
certify particular individuals after a

3827
02:32:48,230 --> 02:32:45,520
vetting process like uh colonel x with

3828
02:32:50,950 --> 02:32:48,240
anthony sanchez and the the dulce bass

3829
02:32:53,429 --> 02:32:50,960
new informant or corey goode or dan

3830
02:32:55,990 --> 02:32:53,439
burris these types of people

3831
02:32:58,550 --> 02:32:56,000
show us your your separation

3832
02:33:01,030 --> 02:32:58,560
agreement with the government your dd214

3833
02:33:03,910 --> 02:33:01,040
show us some some sort of anything

3834
02:33:06,150 --> 02:33:03,920
anything that supports this

3835
02:33:08,230 --> 02:33:06,160
totally sci-fi scenario that you're

3836
02:33:11,990 --> 02:33:08,240
presenting the public uh with a straight

3837
02:33:15,190 --> 02:33:12,000
face i think they're real we really need

3838
02:33:16,389 --> 02:33:15,200
some sort of it's not certification but

3839
02:33:18,630 --> 02:33:16,399
some sort of

3840
02:33:20,309 --> 02:33:18,640
impartial jury that's going to say pay

3841
02:33:22,870 --> 02:33:20,319
attention to this guy he may be on to

3842
02:33:24,070 --> 02:33:22,880
something or we should believe this guy

3843
02:33:25,750 --> 02:33:24,080
versus

3844
02:33:27,830 --> 02:33:25,760
this particular person

3845
02:33:29,990 --> 02:33:27,840
is coming across like uh you know like a

3846
02:33:31,990 --> 02:33:30,000
total crack and and don't you know don't

3847
02:33:33,910 --> 02:33:32,000
buy into it i mean is there a way to

3848
02:33:35,670 --> 02:33:33,920
ever do that do you think i think that's

3849
02:33:37,670 --> 02:33:35,680
going to be a tough one but i think what

3850
02:33:39,590 --> 02:33:37,680
we can do that will be really effective

3851
02:33:42,150 --> 02:33:39,600
and i've been trying to do this on every

3852
02:33:44,389 --> 02:33:42,160
radio show or whenever i'm speaking is

3853
02:33:47,110 --> 02:33:44,399
point people towards good

3854
02:33:49,750 --> 02:33:47,120
research which is project heshtallin for

3855
02:33:51,510 --> 02:33:49,760
30 years i mean you've got 30 years of

3856
02:33:53,750 --> 02:33:51,520
data where they there have been

3857
02:33:55,349 --> 02:33:53,760
scientists from all over the world

3858
02:33:57,510 --> 02:33:55,359
they're collecting data they've found

3859
02:34:00,630 --> 02:33:57,520
four different types of light phenomena

3860
02:34:02,710 --> 02:34:00,640
that they feel behaves intelligently

3861
02:34:04,870 --> 02:34:02,720
this is what we need to do we've also

3862
02:34:06,950 --> 02:34:04,880
see erling strand and his team of

3863
02:34:09,110 --> 02:34:06,960
researchers every year they teach

3864
02:34:11,270 --> 02:34:09,120
science camp to all the university

3865
02:34:13,270 --> 02:34:11,280
students and so they're instilling a

3866
02:34:15,510 --> 02:34:13,280
sense of importance of the scientific

3867
02:34:18,469 --> 02:34:15,520
method and they're also

3868
02:34:20,710 --> 02:34:18,479
letting people know kids that this is

3869
02:34:22,150 --> 02:34:20,720
where we need to focus our research and

3870
02:34:24,150 --> 02:34:22,160
i think that's what we need to do in

3871
02:34:25,830 --> 02:34:24,160
america i think that's what we need to

3872
02:34:27,910 --> 02:34:25,840
do as individual researchers and

3873
02:34:30,469 --> 02:34:27,920
organizations and

3874
02:34:32,550 --> 02:34:30,479
just point people in the right direction

3875
02:34:34,389 --> 02:34:32,560
who wants to speak next well i want to

3876
02:34:37,429 --> 02:34:34,399
weigh in and just say and at the same

3877
02:34:39,190 --> 02:34:37,439
time we have a black world and black

3878
02:34:41,990 --> 02:34:39,200
projects that we know the government is

3879
02:34:45,590 --> 02:34:42,000
not telling us about and funding at a

3880
02:34:48,790 --> 02:34:45,600
great rate this is evident every time

3881
02:34:50,469 --> 02:34:48,800
you drive up to area 51 and as of you

3882
02:34:52,710 --> 02:34:50,479
know what a year and a half ago they

3883
02:34:54,630 --> 02:34:52,720
would say there is no base and you're

3884
02:34:56,950 --> 02:34:54,640
standing right in front of it so i think

3885
02:34:58,710 --> 02:34:56,960
there are many things going on that

3886
02:35:01,030 --> 02:34:58,720
we're not told about

3887
02:35:03,990 --> 02:35:01,040
but i agree some of these bold

3888
02:35:06,150 --> 02:35:04,000
statements that get a lot of attention

3889
02:35:08,630 --> 02:35:06,160
just need more scrutiny it's why i

3890
02:35:10,630 --> 02:35:08,640
insist that you know investigators our

3891
02:35:13,510 --> 02:35:10,640
goal should be admissibility and meeting

3892
02:35:16,150 --> 02:35:13,520
a burden of proof before we throw cases

3893
02:35:19,349 --> 02:35:16,160
out there like this and we just have to

3894
02:35:21,990 --> 02:35:19,359
keep being examples and and keep pushing

3895
02:35:23,270 --> 02:35:22,000
the narrative on what's acceptable and

3896
02:35:26,710 --> 02:35:23,280
what's not

3897
02:35:28,550 --> 02:35:26,720
accentuate the positive

3898
02:35:30,150 --> 02:35:28,560
yeah it seems to be the theme i've had

3899
02:35:31,830 --> 02:35:30,160
through this whole show

3900
02:35:33,670 --> 02:35:31,840
to be honest with you i thought we were

3901
02:35:36,630 --> 02:35:33,680
going to talk about accomplishments of

3902
02:35:39,590 --> 02:35:36,640
women in ufology i had no idea it was

3903
02:35:41,750 --> 02:35:39,600
more of this i literally you know was

3904
02:35:42,630 --> 02:35:41,760
coming here with wonderful things to say

3905
02:35:45,270 --> 02:35:42,640
about

3906
02:35:47,670 --> 02:35:45,280
women in ufology like marina popovich

3907
02:35:50,469 --> 02:35:47,680
you know just think about this woman who

3908
02:35:53,830 --> 02:35:50,479
holds aviation records and out at the

3909
02:35:56,550 --> 02:35:53,840
kgb and talks about ufo phenomena and is

3910
02:35:58,150 --> 02:35:56,560
a cosmonaut just some of the big

3911
02:36:00,469 --> 02:35:58,160
momentous

3912
02:36:01,990 --> 02:36:00,479
achievements of women in ufology so can

3913
02:36:02,950 --> 02:36:02,000
we do that next time guys because yeah

3914
02:36:05,910 --> 02:36:02,960
yeah

3915
02:36:08,150 --> 02:36:05,920
absolutely every note i have is

3916
02:36:10,950 --> 02:36:08,160
you know you know fought me for it

3917
02:36:13,429 --> 02:36:10,960
please i have no problem with that i i

3918
02:36:15,590 --> 02:36:13,439
really try to live my life with a very

3919
02:36:17,030 --> 02:36:15,600
positive attitude and looking for you

3920
02:36:18,550 --> 02:36:17,040
know the good stuff in others you know

3921
02:36:20,469 --> 02:36:18,560
i'm kind of known as the cheerleader out

3922
02:36:22,430 --> 02:36:20,479
here and we all know my favorite color

3923
02:36:23,990 --> 02:36:22,440
is glitter you know

3924
02:36:25,270 --> 02:36:24,000
[Laughter]

3925
02:36:28,150 --> 02:36:25,280
you know and i'm not trying to make

3926
02:36:30,389 --> 02:36:28,160
light it's just i love what i do i don't

3927
02:36:31,990 --> 02:36:30,399
want to be unhappy in my work i think we

3928
02:36:34,550 --> 02:36:32,000
all feel that same way i think i know

3929
02:36:36,790 --> 02:36:34,560
i'm an incredibly positive person and

3930
02:36:38,630 --> 02:36:36,800
and but i also think that we need to

3931
02:36:40,070 --> 02:36:38,640
it's important we've had the opportunity

3932
02:36:42,309 --> 02:36:40,080
for the past two hours to have this

3933
02:36:44,070 --> 02:36:42,319
dialogue and to talk about things and i

3934
02:36:46,309 --> 02:36:44,080
think that that's more of a service for

3935
02:36:47,670 --> 02:36:46,319
younger people and we can hopefully come

3936
02:36:49,590 --> 02:36:47,680
on the show again and talk about and

3937
02:36:51,750 --> 02:36:49,600
ruffle or talk about jenny randalls or

3938
02:36:52,630 --> 02:36:51,760
some of the the really

3939
02:36:56,469 --> 02:36:52,640
you know

3940
02:36:57,670 --> 02:36:56,479
absolute pillars not pioneers pillars

3941
02:37:00,070 --> 02:36:57,680
of the field

3942
02:37:03,349 --> 02:37:00,080
and drop is one of the

3943
02:37:06,309 --> 02:37:03,359
most respected people in the field in my

3944
02:37:09,349 --> 02:37:06,319
eyes and a true inspiration and one of

3945
02:37:11,510 --> 02:37:09,359
the high points of my ufological career

3946
02:37:13,349 --> 02:37:11,520
was when i got a chance to finally meet

3947
02:37:15,510 --> 02:37:13,359
her

3948
02:37:17,910 --> 02:37:15,520
and she was passing around the original

3949
02:37:20,150 --> 02:37:17,920
polaroids of the heflin shots including

3950
02:37:22,790 --> 02:37:20,160
the the last one which very few people

3951
02:37:24,950 --> 02:37:22,800
remember oh wow i mean i tell you that

3952
02:37:27,110 --> 02:37:24,960
was a high point in my my youth logical

3953
02:37:29,429 --> 02:37:27,120
life so there so there by the way ann

3954
02:37:32,150 --> 02:37:29,439
druffle was on the power cast a little

3955
02:37:34,230 --> 02:37:32,160
over 10 years ago so check our archives

3956
02:37:36,670 --> 02:37:34,240
and you'll see the episode erica where

3957
02:37:38,870 --> 02:37:36,680
can we find more of the stuff you do

3958
02:37:41,510 --> 02:37:38,880
ufoclassified.com and my shows every

3959
02:37:43,990 --> 02:37:41,520
friday night at 5 00 p.m mountain

3960
02:37:45,429 --> 02:37:44,000
standard time on kcor

3961
02:37:48,950 --> 02:37:45,439
chase where can we find more of your

3962
02:37:52,230 --> 02:37:48,960
stuff at chaseklitzke.com and also the

3963
02:37:54,389 --> 02:37:52,240
field reports all one word uh dot com

3964
02:37:56,630 --> 02:37:54,399
where you can check out a lot of um the

3965
02:37:59,270 --> 02:37:56,640
latest updates on what we've been doing

3966
02:38:04,469 --> 02:37:59,280
kathleen where can we find your stuff at

3967
02:38:06,230 --> 02:38:04,479
kathleen dash martin m-a-r-d-e-n.com

3968
02:38:07,990 --> 02:38:06,240
and you can find more of our stuff on

3969
02:38:10,630 --> 02:38:08,000
twitter look for the powercast on

3970
02:38:12,309 --> 02:38:10,640
twitter look for our two powercast fan

3971
02:38:14,870 --> 02:38:12,319
clubs on facebook

3972
02:38:18,550 --> 02:38:14,880
and check out the powercast plus

3973
02:38:22,630 --> 02:38:20,389
we have a second radio show after the

3974
02:38:24,070 --> 02:38:22,640
powercast that's part of the package if

3975
02:38:25,910 --> 02:38:24,080
you subscribe

3976
02:38:28,790 --> 02:38:25,920
you get the commercial free version of

3977
02:38:31,550 --> 02:38:28,800
this show for a low price beginning at a

3978
02:38:33,190 --> 02:38:31,560
dollar 49 a week plus not

3979
02:38:34,630 --> 02:38:33,200
thepowercast.com

3980
02:38:37,910 --> 02:38:34,640
erica luke's

3981
02:38:40,469 --> 02:38:37,920
kathleen martin chase kletzke thank you

3982
02:38:44,150 --> 02:38:40,479
all for joining us on the power cast

3983
02:38:45,990 --> 02:38:44,160
thank you thanks guys it was 100 my

3984
02:38:48,070 --> 02:38:46,000
pleasure to be with you again

3985
02:38:50,270 --> 02:38:48,080
thank you it was a great pleasure to be

3986
02:39:03,190 --> 02:38:50,280
with you again

3987
02:39:08,950 --> 02:39:06,070
the powercast featuring jean steinberg

3988
02:39:11,910 --> 02:39:08,960
and christopher o'brien is a copyrighted

3989
02:39:13,670 --> 02:39:11,920
presentation of making the impossible

3990
02:39:17,830 --> 02:39:13,680
incorporated